What is about the Judges for Showmanship? For the Open shows the local clubs have around here, we can never get a Judge that knows what Showmanship class is!

Today's judge had the kids jog to a cone, slow to a walk, then approach a chute made of two poles. Do a 180 and back between the poles. Once thru the poles, then do another 180 and trot to the judge.

Well, the first question I have is poles in Showmanship? It's not supposed to be an obstacle course. That's trail.

Then, the sheet specified that the 180 turn be done to the LEFT! Huh? Any turn over 90 degrees has to be done to the RIGHT! You can have a 90 pull turn, but not 180. She wanted the kids to stop, step around their horse and then do a 180 PUSH turn from the right side of the horse! I've NEVER heard of this!

Rant!

Over on pleasure horse, they say that they're seeing poles added to the patterns at some QH shows. Go figure. I thought those were more for trail, but what do I know :P

But you're completely right on the pivots. I'm pretty sure it's in the AQHA rulebook about the 90 pull turns. Plus, I would trip over my own two feet and fall down if I had to so a 180 backwards! LOL!

Well......it at least sounds like the judge was making the kids work so they could really judge who can handle a horse and who just had a horse that knows the usually drill.
When I was in 4-H, soooo many years ago, I would have been so happy to be asked to do something like this in showmanship.
I don't see anything wrong with what was asked. Showmanship is judged on how the horse is handled.

I have never seen poles in showmanship but going to the off side is ver common to show your horse. I have had to do a whole pattern from the offside before with 360's to the left backing troting etc. It is common in higher competition and judges who do know what they are doing and asking for. In medals almost every pattern asks for at least 1 manuver from the off side.
SARAH

You think that's crazy, our local 4-H fair show was NUTS! The western class was just odd. They made you do the normal w/t/c AND in between these two cones you had to execute a flying lead change!!! How weird?! In the english class the judges would ask for rising trot, no stirrups, etc. It was really strange. This was the first year i've ever seen it like that.

To me those are normal requests.

Below, I have copied in the rules from the AQHA Handbook. Please note that it states "All leading, backing, turning, and set up for inspecting should be performed from the left side of the horse." It addresses pull turns, too. Not to exceed 90 degrees.

The rules do not address poles. Maybe that's something new they're doing because everyone has gotten so good!

From the AQHA Handbook: (Paragraph 471)(PAGE 221)
The exhibitor must lead on the horse’s left side holding the lead
shank in the right hand near the halter with the tail of the lead loosely
coiled in the left hand unless requested by the judge to show the
horse’s teeth. It is preferable that the exhibitor’s hand not be on the
snap or chain portion of the lead continuously. The excess lead should
never be tightly coiled, rolled or folded. When leading, the exhibitor
should be positioned between the eye and the mid-point of the
horse’s neck, referred to as the leading position.
Both arms should be bent at the elbow with the elbows held close to
the exhibitors side and the forearms held in a natural position.
Height of the arms may vary depending on the size of the horse and
exhibitor, but the arms should never be held straight out with the
elbows locked.
The position of the exhibitor when executing a turn to the right is
the same as the leading position except that the exhibitor should turn
and face toward the horse’s head and have the horse move away from
them to the right.
When executing a back, the exhibitor should turn from the leading
position to face toward the rear of the horse with the right hand
extended across the exhibitor’s chest and walk forward beside the
horse with the horse moving backward.
When setting the horse up for inspection, the exhibitor should stand
angled toward the horse in a position between the horse’s eye and
muzzle, and should never leave the head of the horse. It is recommended,
but not mandatory that exhibitors use the “Quarter
Method” when presenting the horse. The exhibitor should maintain
a position that is safe for themselves and the judge. The position of
the exhibitor should not obstruct the judge’s view of the horse and
should allow the exhibitor to maintain awareness of the judge’s position
at all times. The exhibitor should not crowd other exhibitors
when setting up side-by-side or head-to-tail. When moving around
221
the horse, the exhibitor should change sides in front of the horse with
minimal steps and should assume the same position on the right side
of the horse that they had on the left side.
Leading, backing, turning and initiating the set-up should be performed
from the left side of the horse. At no time should the
exhibitor ever stand directly in front of the horse. The exhibitor
should not touch the horse with their hands or feet, or visibly cue the
horse by pointing their feet at the horse during the set-up.
(B) Appearance of Horse

Doing anything more than quartering from the off-side is a HUGE no-no per the AQHA and APHA rule books (those are the only two I have). Now, I have taught several of my horses how to perform maneuvers from the off-side, it's only been to decrease our boredom. We've never ever been asked to do any of that at a show.

I think this judge was a little addled. She THOUGHT she was doing the right thing, stated that she was following the AQHA and Paint rulebooks. She even had a rulebook with her! But, I think she got it mixed up in her mind.

(She got lost on her way to the arena. And, she had been there before.)

She had one turn marked as a 180, when the drawing indicated it would have to be a 270 in order to face the correct direction.

But, she did state that to do the 180 to the left, the exhibitor should cross over to the right side of the horse, and turn him from there. That is in clear contradiction to the rule that states that all leading, turning, backing and setting up should be done on the left side of the horse.

Again, I really think she thought she knew what she was doing, but got mixed up.

Quote:

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(She got lost on her way to the arena. And, she had been there before.)

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ROFLMAO! That would be a sign that I needed to load back up and head home

We pulled in to a local fair show on our way home from a paint show this summer, and ran into one of those situations. ALWAYS ask who the judge is before making your entries! LOL! The girl that won the youth pleasure was on the wrong lead both directions (never changed them, either) and horse that won the open hunt seat hung out in the middle and flipped it's head every time the rider made contact. Oh well. Another day, another show.

Well, this show was held by our local saddle club, and it was a "points" show for year end awards. So, we had to participate! There was actually a pretty high quality of horse/rider teams there on Saturday. "No junk!" as one member said! LOL!!!

There had been another show scheduled for Friday night at another saddle club, and it had been cancelled due to rain, so everyone who would have shown there came to this one. We were planning on showing in both.

But, this was the last show before the "State Show" for the high pointers from the local associations go to Perry, so lots of folks wanted to get a good practice show in.

My daughter finishe 3rd in Youth Halter (her horse isn't a halter horse); 2nd in Western Walk/Trot; 3rd in WP; 1st in Horsemanship; 2nd in Western SMS (she did the 180 from the "Correct" side, not the "Off" side the Judge asked for).

She scratched out of the English classes and Trail because it was over 100 degrees, and everyone else was scratching, too. (She loves trail, but it just wasn't worth it.)

Next year, I'm on the Show Commitee. Ugh. It's hard to get judges to do these Open shows. But, I want to try to make sure they get a copy of the rules so they will set up classes properly. The kids learn at the local shows.

I understand. When you're going for a high point, every class counts! At least your daughter did well

My mother and some of her friends manage a few shows every year, including one of the biggest jackpot shows in IL. They make sure they get a carded judge if at all possible--they prefer an AQHA card, but will accept APHA and ApHC. It's certainly hard to get those judges, though. They're expensive and you have to book them a year in advance. However, once you book one (and treat them well!!!) they're usually great about helping you network to find your next judges. One of the judges they like to rotate through has judged the paint world and is the head of the horse program at a major university. That definitely helps draw in entries and stops the griping before it starts. If you ever want or need info, just feel free to e-mail me and I can put you in touch with them

This judge had some affilation with APHA.

She was trying to test the kids. She called for a counter-canter in horsemanship. Everyone was complaining about that! (Except my daughter. She's been thru that drill!)

I've heard we can get a good list of judges thru Univ. of GA. I'll try that, anyway.

That's weird...everyone knows that you can be penelized for turning to the left in showmanship! The poles I'm not sure about, but the turn is a big no-no. The horse could step on you! I've found that at some small local shows, the patterns are just "revised" horsmanship or trail patterns.