Interesting. 

If I were a horse, the rider's toe is probably the easiest if not the only part of the rider that I could bite.  If there was 1). a trapadero on the stirrups or 2). steel toe riding boots or 3). if the rider were riding high on a racing saddle, then that opportunity to bite a toe would be denied.  I could also see that if the rider were wearing spurs, then a bite would mean a poke on the sides.  Hey, at leas tyou have great neck flex.

I think I'd try spurs first.

Hope that whatever method you choose gives you immediate response and lead to a good learning experience.

If you don't ground drive her, I'd be doing that for a while.  You can get good go and whoa from the ground.  From what you say, if it were me, I would spend a while with ground driving before getting back on her.  do it fully saddled/bridled but that way if she has a fit again you won't get dumped.

BTW, there is no way in hell I would use spurs on her at this point.

I agree with journeygirl,  it sounds like she needs more time on the ground to get that go forward button 100% before you start asking her to do anything more with a rider on her back, What exactly do you do when you ground work her? I would start by working her in the round pen with a saddle, bridle, and side reins at the walk/trot/canter and ask for several direction changes and transitions each direction to keep her attention. If she is solid with that (read- consistently gives NO resistance to any of your requests on the ground), I would then start her in driving lines completely tacked up so she gets the idea of moving forward with contact on her mouth and a saddle on her back. Another thing you might try, once her ground work is solid, is having someone on the ground directing her forward while you're on her back which might help her to get the "go forward" idea a little easier, I also would not put spurs on her right now, because I would be willing to bet they would ellicit a very ugly response from your mare, and being that she is young and does not yet understand leg aids they would be ineffective at best. Anyways, good look and be safe!! It sounds like you have quite the project on your hands :)

Has this mare been thoroughly vetted out and seen by a chiro and a dentist?  Just a thought.  If she's in some kind of discomfort, that would explain her excalating aggression.  Most horses don't get angry just from being lazy and spoiled.  They get angry from feeling as if no one is hearing their complaints. 

On a light note, my daughter's Morgan had the toe-holding (not really biting) thing down pat when he was 2.  He realized quickly that if he was holding onto the rider's toe, that pretty much ended the session.  A quick jerk of the foot (not a kick in the mouth) and a "Knock it off and get moving!" seemed to stop that behavior so he only pulled it on newbies who were afraid to do anything that might upset him . . . but he continued trying that until he was, uhmmmm, around 12, I think.  LOL  Otherwise he was a great horse.  He could "read" a new rider and knew exactly how to get the better of one right down to cantering up to a cross-rail, then stopping dead with two feet on either side.  It's nearly impossible to move a horse from the saddle when he's got a jump between his legs, and he knew that.  Beginners were put through the ringer until they got the hang of his sense of humor.  My daughter, on the other hand, took him to second level dressage and he was a successful open jumper.  It takes all kinds! 

Good point JMF, definitely make sure the response isn't coming from pain from an injury somewhere or improper sadddle fit. By the way, that was quite a talented little horse you had there :) In all my years of riding I don't think I've ever known one that could stop dead with two feet on each side of a cross-rail :) Typical Morgan though, all the ones I've known are WAY too smart for their own good :)

I had a gelding that I was training once that would reached around and bit at my toe when he was mad.  I would try to re-direct his energy.  One time he reached around and bit my toe hard - my reaction was to kick him off!  I popped him in the mouth, he jerked his head up and never tried it again.  Since then, I have had another mare try the same thing.  The first time she tried, I met her mouth with the tip of my boot.  She immediatly started to chew and focus on her lesson. She has since never tried to grab my toe again.  I guess the immediate and direct reprimand works the same as the "3 Second Kill" technique you mentioned.

I've kicked a horse in the nose before for attempting to bite.  But, since this horse has already proven to "blow up" when she smacked her own nose into the riders boot, I would advise against that at this particular moment.  The "blow up" is the horse is screaming out in the only way she knows how trying to say she doesn't understand. 

TO the OP, have you worked this horse at the trot on the ground?  If you haven't then you should have MANY more rides on her BEFORE asking her to go faster then a walk.  At this point, IMO, she needs to be ground driven for quite some time before getting on her again.  Her answer to not understanding is biting and when you "didn't get that message" she went right into rearing.  Not that it sounds like she gave you much time to understand what she was telling you before she reared.  I personally love ground driving because they can learn A LOT from it with out you on their back.  At the same time they are learning aboutt bit pressure/giving to the bit, ect.  They are also learing that having things around their hind end WON'T kill them.  If you've never ground driven a horse before then I HIGHLY suggest the first few times you do it you use a broke horse and just use the halter so that if you drop a line or something like that, then the horse doens't step on the line and put all that pressure on the bit.  Then start with your training horse.

Ground driving is (IMO) a key training tool.  I prefer it to lunging becasue it's no where near as stressful on their joints as lunging is. 

Reading the posts, I have another question for the OP:  How experienced are you as a trainer?  It occurred to me that the questions being asked are kind of elementary (no criticism intended).  Could it be that this horse really needs to be started by a professional?  Since the owners won her, it should be worth it to them to put some cash into training.

Wow, thanks for all the posts.  I appreciate all the input.

Driving & Groundwork:

Yes, I have driven the mare - EXTENSIVELY.  She moves out 100% accurately either at the walk or trot.  She changes directions with no resistance and stops on a dime.  Her back-up is great.  She moves very well with her hip and shoulder in both directions.  She's very light and willing to learn - ON THE GROUND.  I only stepped up on her after I was 100% she was ready for the next step.

Manners on the ground:

When I first got this mare, she did everything from biting, striking out and kicking to basically just trying to run you over.  She had never worked for a living and was resentful for her change in life.  I got all those vices fixed before I could even begin to think I could start driving her.  She became a very willing student after several sessions in the RP and quickly learned to behave like a lady or she'd have to work like a dog!  She moves forward consistently in all gaits, changes direction both with inside turns and outside turns (on command), stops and backs.  I didn't lunge all that much as she picked up the lessons on her own.

Trainer Experience:

I've been training horses for 20 years.  I've started many, many horses and this is the first one that wants to bite me while I'm aboard.  I must admit, I've never worked with a mare that is THIS spoiled.

pjbarker:

Trainer Experience:

I've been training horses for 20 years.  I've started many, many horses and this is the first one that wants to bite me while I'm aboard.  I must admit, I've never worked with a mare that is THIS spoiled.

 I didn't mean to offend.    I've been doing this for 47 years and don't consider myself experienced enough to handle a mare with issues like the ones you're describing.  I'd be sending her out on the first available trailer.   I like all my body parts where they are, and I'd really love to live to ride another day. 

I still vote for some unresolved physical issue--even something neurological.  She sounds like a willing worker since she's learned so quickly in the RP and in your groundwork.  Mounted work should only be one more step in the program at this point, not a major trauma. 

I wish you luck!

No offense taken!  I re-read my original post and could see how I sounded like an amateur!

She passed a vet check before coming to my facility.  She doesn't move like there's anything structurally unsound about her.  I know the gal who donated this mare and evidently she's the result of an over the fence breeding.  Both parents are on her premises and are not related (how odd to have to ask that question!).  So, I hesitate to deem this mare as "crazy" but that's what I've taken to call her since yesterday!

After I've settled down a bit, I think I may be moving a little too fast for this mare.  Asking too much of a horse that's not accustomed to doing anything.  So,  my plan now is to stick with different speeds of walking and building on the bridlework she's so good at from the ground until she's got some confidence built up.  I thought she was ready for something more since she's so willing to do other things, like work a gate while mounted, for example.  But, I sorely (no pun intended) was mistaken!

Yes, she is a handful.  No, I definately wouldn't want her in my own string.  I can't tell you how much I've stressed to the owner that she will NOT be a horse for an amateur or kid rider and even have our signed agreement with that stated in it.  Honestly, I think the $$ they are paying me to break this horse is going down the drain since I'm 99.99999% sure she won't be ridden again.  At least she will have better manners for the farrier (who referred me) and vet (who assurred them I was the gal they should use).  Gee, thanks guys

OK, I can see now that you have got all your T's crossed and I's dotted for ground training. If you really feel that it is not a physical problem with her, then I would have to say it it saddle fit. What pad, saddle, girth are you using? Each one of those could be causing the problem. It may start to hurt her when you get on and put that much extra weight on her. With the extra weight of a rider it may be pinching, pushing and hurting her. Have you tried to have a smaller/lighter rider (as long as they are a very good rider and not a young inexperienced rider, but I know you know that) and lunge them together? Have you tried riding her bareback to see if she is any different? Only do that if you are comfortable with the fact that she may rear. I would also maybe have her eyes examined. She may be not seeing you well up on her back and is being frightened by having someone up on her. It's a long shot but wouldn't hurt to have them checked.

pjbarker:

She passed a vet check before coming to my facility.  She doesn't move like there's anything structurally unsound about her.  I know the gal who donated this mare and evidently she's the result of an over the fence breeding.  Both parents are on her premises and are not related (how odd to have to ask that question!).  So, I hesitate to deem this mare as "crazy" but that's what I've taken to call her since yesterday!

Just for the sake of argument, I've got to throw in that my daughter had a training horse here--similar situation in that the owners were novices who found the filly online and had her for 4 years without doing anything with her but following her around with brushes and cookies. She appeared to be the epitome of the spoiled horse. She didn't halter, tie, lead, trailer, or anything else useful.  That horse had been vet-checked too.  My daughter spent several months training her, and she did okay.  Just okay.  She had a quirky streak that was a little scary, and she'd already broken her teen owner's collarbone once before they called Jess.  When training was over (when we couldn't stand to have them around anymore and their checks had bounced sufficiently high), Jess was convinced the mare simply wasn't right, so before she kicked them out, she talked the owners into letting our vet check her out.  He found a neurological problem.  That's what had been the issue all along.  They left here and were at another boarding training facility for only 2 months when the mare flipped out and injured herself and her owner badly.

Then there's the brand-new horse my neighbor just brought home from out of state.  Twelve years old, show-solid, and passed a vet check.  Two weeks she's been here.  Two weeks they've been wondering why she's so sloppy over jumps.  New vet check=nerological problem.  Lift her head and she falls over.    The original vet didn't pick that up.

Then there's the infamous Zip, my big Paint, who was fine until about 18 months ago.  He got really odd--behaving badly under saddle, kicking, refusing to move forward, threatening me when I girthed him or groomed him.  I had a full vet workup done and nothing came of it.  The vet pronounced it a training issue.  I bought two new Bates saddles (yes, really) and followed all the training advice I got from every trainer I talked to.  I went to clinics.  I spent hours and hours on ground work despite the fact that he'd been John Lyons-ed and clicker trained into a circus horse.  Nothing helped.  Last month, on a whim, I had a chiro look at him.  One quick adjustment, and I've got my horse back!!  I could have saved $4000 on saddles and over a year of vet, clinic, and training fees if I'd called her when I first suspected the problem was physical.

So I still say have another vet look at the horse.  Vet checks aren't always done to the fullest.  People tend to cheap out and avoid stuff like x-rays and blood work.  There are a number of ailments that cause symptoms that include aggression.  If they intend to keep the mare, it's worth having a definitive answer.

Good points!  I'll contact the vet again and have her come out to do a more thorough exam while I'm there.

I'm going to try different configurations with the saddle tonight (different pad, cinch, saddle, etc.) and see if that helps.  She's not cinchy at all, but I've got to get this figured out!  There is absolutely no way that I'd get on this mare bareback right now, eventhough that would probably be helpful in determining what her problem is.  I worked her from the ground last night (round pen, driving and bridlework) and once again, she's just wonderful.  Maybe she's meant to be a carriage horse!