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Degenerative Joint Disorder and arthritis

Last post 05-25-2008 5:53 PM by AshtonGal. 13 replies.
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  • 05-18-2008 11:14 AM

    Degenerative Joint Disorder and arthritis

    Hi, I just bought a 15 year old Fox trotter and after a week found out he had DJD with sever arthritis in his hocks. He lays down and it is very hard fro him to get up. I asked the previous owner to take him back but, well, that didn't go good. My fault I took the word of a friend and not a vet. Well, anyway, the vet said I could give him shots that would last about 6-8 months and I would have to give them again. These cost is about $500. I have been reserching some supplements and there are so many!!!! Does anyone have any suggestions on anything they have tried with this problem or similar. He is on a regimine of bute for 30 days and he is a different horse. But I know I can't give this to him forever. I just love him, I have been looking for a horse for 5 years for my husband to gain some confidence on and thought I found him. He will be great if I could just get him to not be in pain. I feel so bad for him! Please if anyone could help I would be extremely greatful.

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  • 05-18-2008 12:37 PM In reply to

    Re: Degenerative Join Disorder and arthritis

    Cora Flex is a good thing as well ast B-L Soultion. They both are better in the liquid form that they come in. They are a little more cost friendly. The more that he can get out of his stall and move around is better. When you start him on anything for the first week you want to double to dose and then cut back to normal suggested dosage.
  • 05-18-2008 1:27 PM In reply to

    Re: Degenerative Join Disorder and arthritis

    Hi,

    I have a mare that suffered an injury to her pastern when she was 8 months old. Over time she has developed ringbone...it is not yet a bad case, but it is there nevertheless. Anyway, she has only showed lamesness one time... I had the vet out to rexray her to make sure things weren't getting worse. Long story short, we gave her a round of Adequin injections...7 of them...1 every 4 days. After that I put her on Cosequin ASU. You do have to get a percription from the vet...but it has worked wonders for us so far :) She is doing wonderfully on it and I can ride her without causing her any pain.

    You may want to look into that.....good luck!!!

  • 05-19-2008 3:34 PM In reply to

    Re: Degenerative Joint Disorder and arthritis

    I have a seven year old hanoverian mare that has arthritis in her hocks.  I have been giving her Legend IV once a month and that has worked very well for me.  It is expensive though!
  • 05-19-2008 5:51 PM In reply to

    Re: Degenerative Joint Disorder and arthritis

    I just read your post and some of the answers. I guess it depends on the horse and the situation.  My horse is around 12-15 and an Arab.  She is very pigeon-toed and has degenerative arthritis of her knees and she's progressively getting worse - she'll never get better.  I have been spending a lot of money on trying to make her comfortable.  The Horse Journal just did a two-month series on joint supplements and how they worked on test horses.  I purchased the supplement I thought sounded like it would help my horse -- it didn't.  I have used B-L solution - didn't help. 

    I've had her knees injected with cortisone and then HA along with the cortisone.  They helped but then it didn't last the 6-8 months.  Both knees were injected for a total of 3 times per knee.  The last time I had both knees done together.  The last time she had her knees injected the vet had given me information on IRAP therapy because cortisone, over time, erodes bone.  With the HA and cortisone it was $200/knee.  For IRAP - what they do is take a good size tube of blood, process the blood in the tube of glass beads, and a serum is produced from the blood which is then injected into the knees.  It is supposed to be good for the horse because it is made from the horse's antibodies and doesn't erode the bone - it's even supposed to be a much better pain reliever as well as building healthy tissue/bone.  My vet got 12 syringes of serum and my Mandy has had two sets, she may get her third but we are trying something else.  I've had her on bute - 1 gram/day.  That has really helped her. 

    Also, she has allergies and one benefit of the allergy shot is that it helps her knees.  I had forgotten about the allergy shot and I live in Tennessee and our pollen season is almost over.  So she finally had her shot Friday.  Could be her attitude and my "worrying" about her comfort - I thought she was in pain.  She seemed alot more comfortable today and I rode her for about 40 minutes - she wouldn't win if we raced a turtle, I'm serious.  But, when she is nervous you can't tell she's lame. Mandy is also insulin resistant and on Chromium.  I also give her an MSM supplement from a natural supplement company (a little pricier than most).

    Oh, and we also had a special shoe put on 3 weeks ago.  It's called EasyWalker and looks like a sneaker.  The shoe is green and yellow and about 1/2" thick, supposed to lessen the percussion of the foot hitting the ground.  I usually keep her barefoot, but the farrier thought it could possibly help - the jury is still out on that one.  The farrier had to reset the shoes because the vet (Friday) determined her toes were too long and she couldn't roll her hoof, he came out Saturday.  He trimmed her shorter and set the shoe back so that a little showed in the back of the hoof and rolled her toe more.  That "seemed" to help.

    So, my husband asked me when I'm going to stop chasing butterflies when it comes to Mandy.  I have spent a couple thousand on her comfort in the last 18 months.  I guess as long as we can afford treatment, we'll keep chasing.  So it's really difficult to tell you, I've learned each horse is different and it's trial and error.  Good luck, I hope your trial and error doesn't take too long.

  • 05-19-2008 6:37 PM In reply to

    Re: Degenerative Joint Disorder and arthritis

    I came here to learn more about DJF and arthritis. It sounds like you've had quite an ordeal. And thank you for explaining IRAP. I've just heard about it and was hoping somebody would shed some light on it for me.

    I've been learning about the barefoot trim and your paragraph about bringing back her toe to improve breakover hit home for me. I'd safely bet that the torque off that toe has done much more than seeming better. It's probably helped a lot towards relieving the insult to the knees. I learned this first hand last winter. I was trudging thru deep snow for most of the winter (Canada) and my knees were screaming at me. At first I thought it was the weight of my boots, but then I realized that it was because I had been tippy-toeing thru the snow on the balls of my feet in order to maintain balance and move forward. Then, (slap my forehead,lol) I realized that I should have been walking normally, which is heel first, which is what my goals at the barn are. I straightened up, looked farther ahead, stuck my heel out first, got my toes out of the way, improved my breakover and I haven't heard from my knees since! Big Smile 

    What I'd like to ask is that now the balance has been improved, can it be improved even more? Flare forward takes a while of getting after the toes to get back where its supposed to be. I would say more power to you for getting rid of the aggravation to the knees with every mm. that the hoof becomes better balanced. I can attest to that.  

  • 05-19-2008 7:25 PM In reply to

    Re: Degenerative Joint Disorder and arthritis

    I had a mare diagnosed with degenerative arthritis in her hips as a 4 year old.  The veterinary college told me to barely ride her, she'd never carrry a foal, and basically would best be to put her down.  That was not an option to me.  A woman introduced me to the magic of Yucca.  You can buy the products on line or at feed stores. As with anything some brands are better than others.

    She was a wonderful show horse, did very well in both english and western and her all-time favorite jumping, which she continued to do until she was 24.  She also raised had and raised a foal.  I tried some other things, msm, cosequin, etc, but they never worked for her like the Yucca did.  The most important thing, too, was to keep her moving.  She always stayed more limber when she was worked regularly.  Long winters with time off were hard on her. 

     Good luck.  Don't give up on your horse.

    Harley Horse


  • 05-19-2008 8:51 PM In reply to

    Re: Degenerative Joint Disorder and arthritis

    I have had amazing results with Recovery with HA. I started using it on my broodmare with a bum knee. It's breeding season & my 16 year old stallion who has some arthritis in his shoulder was having a hard time breeding the mare so i thought hmmm maybe I should have him on this stuff too. Well after only 1 week on Recovery with HA he was like a 5 year old again with the next mare. I was totaly blown away with the results. My new mare I was using it on for her knee has had excellent results too. I just bought her & she had her knee messed up barrel racing her before she was in condition ...idots... anyway the lady I got her from was using some essex tea & castor oil... my vet said I might as well rub the castor oil on her but...lol... she also had her on a natural diet. Well since I got her here & have had her on the recovery & she has been getting good alfalfa grass mix hay with a goood rocky mountain crunch grain she is really coming around, she barely limps if at all & the knee is half it's former size. The Recovery is expensive but what is cheap about horses...

  • 05-20-2008 9:11 AM In reply to

    Re: Degenerative Joint Disorder and arthritis

    I'll throw in another vote for Recovery EQ.  I don't use the HA b/c my vet pointed out that HA is mostly used for young horses and it's more expensive, but the straight EQ has done wonders for my 22-yo QH gelding.  He started having trouble getting out of his stall last year.  He was picking his back feet up reeeeeally high, then kind of getting stuck in that position.  He had trouble putting his foot back down after the farrier trimmed him.  I wasn't about to retire him completely since he's my favorite ride, so I had him vetted.  He was diagnosed with massive arthritis in all of his hock joints--a legacy of his barrel-racing and cow running days.  The doc offered me a choice between injections and Recovery EQ.  I'm not into invasive procedures if they can be avoided, so I opted to try the Recovery.  Within two months, Leo was running around like a 10-yo.  He even threw a huge buck while I was leading him to the gate.  LOL  That's not misbehavior in a horse like him; that's just "WOW, MOM!!  Looka me!"

     639220 is right; it's not cheap.  It's a lot cheaper than injections, however, and if it works, it'll give you back your horse.  What's that worth?  If it doesn't work, you can always opt for injections later.

    "Four things greater than all things are
    women and power and horses and war."
    ~Kipling
  • 05-20-2008 9:50 AM In reply to

    Re: Degenerative Joint Disorder and arthritis

    I have been using products from Blueridge. Caron is the one you need to talk to.  She makes 100% certified organic human grade products. You definitely will see a difference in your horse. I know she has products that will benefit your horse's joints.  She also has herbs you can use instead of bute. Bute is hard on their stomach.  Good luck to you!

  • 05-20-2008 11:08 AM In reply to

    Re: Degenerative Joint Disorder and arthritis

    You're right' there are so many products out there it makes your head swim to try and pick one....and they are putting more out there all the time.  Bute is a wonderful thing, for short term, but I don't think it is good to keep horses on it too long.  There are several "buteless" remedies advertised now; I haven't tried them tho.  The vet could prescribe Equioxx which is fairly new, supposed to be safer on horse tummies than Bute, and works well.  It isn't cheap, tho.  Surpass is another prescription topical (also not cheap) but it can help arthritic horses, and being a topical, is safter for digestive systems.   I use a senior joint product made by MedVet called Senior Flex which has among other things, yucca, which is a wonderful natural product for pain.  This stuff also has chondroitin and glucosomine, and some vitamins, and probiotics.  It is reasonably priced and my horses love it.  I also used another product by MedVet called DCY;  it contains Devils Claw, an herb, and Yucca.  It's not bad pricewise and a bucket lasts a good while.  Maybe getting the shots from the vet to begin with would give your horse fast relief, and you could also use some sort of natural pain reliever meantime.  This could maybe  help the shots last longer and work better.  I'm sure many of the products work very well; just finding the best for your hose will be a challenge!  I hope you find a good one; your new horse sounds awfully sweet!

    The cure for all evils is a canter
  • 05-20-2008 3:31 PM In reply to

    Re: Degenerative Joint Disorder and arthritis

    Arabiangirl........When i need it, I use the Equioxx for a young horse of mine that had a case of ulcers. It does cost more than Bute or Banamine..but well worth it to me because I worry of the affects both Bute and Banamine have on stomachs prone to ulcers. One note is that you cannot use it for longer than 14 days in a row....I guess the studies have shown it builds up toxicity in their system when used for longer periods.

     I also use the Senior Flex for my 22 year old OTTB gelding. He runs around like a 5 year old and it has done wonders for him.....he looks amazing for his age and eveyone says so. I feel it has also helped his weight steady and he is a much easier keeper on it.

  • 05-25-2008 5:45 PM In reply to

    Re: Degenerative Joint Disorder and arthritis

    I have a 16 yr old Quarter horse gelding that was used for cutting before I acquired him 6 yrs ago.  Since I have had him we have covered many miles trail riding, until 2 yrs ago when he started going lame in his right front foot. Xrays and second opinions from Tufts concluded that he had periarticular ringbone disease. I was heartbroken since I just had put my first horse down that had navicular disease. I was determined to keep my first horse comfortable and useful till I knew it was time to put him down, now with my Quarter horse I am doing the same. My vet suggested Adequan IM and go from there, but I have a friend that is a equine nutritionist and she mentioned a joint supplement that worked on her thoroughbred that had arthritits  in both his back legs. I carefully researched this product, consulted my vet, and decided to give it a try. I followed the directions giving the proper loading dose etc and within a couple of weeks started noticing an improvement from him being ouchy to being comfortable and back to his jolly self. It has been almost a year now with him being maintained  on a maintenance dose, and he is doing wonderful. We are back to trail riding,not as much as we used to but still we have that pleasure of strolling down that trail enjoying each other's company, and that's what it's all about!!!!! The product is called OrthoMax. It is put out by Equivision. Their website is www.equivision.com. They are wonderful people that stand behind their products and at any time you can contact them and they will help you with whatever you may need or have questions about. Good Luck to you in your search.
  • 05-25-2008 5:53 PM In reply to

    Re: Degenerative Joint Disorder and arthritis

    Sorry to hear about your new guy and his problems! Sad We've had a couple of horses injected at the farm with a varying degree of success, and others on liquid and powder suppliments (MSM and Glucosamine). I don't know exactly how well they've done or what was injected since they weren't my horses so I can't help you with that but I did read the following article that was very intersting in my "Perfect Horse" magazine.

     "

    John Lyons Perfect Horse December 2007/January 2008 issue: Joint Supplements Demystified

    -by Eleanor Kellon, VMD

     

        Joint supplements work. What's heartening is we finally have some formal studies in horses that back this claim up. However, if you tried several different supplements, you've probably found that some work better than others in helping your horse move more comfortably or controlling heat and swelling. One reason for this is the variable quality of the ingredients. Another is that some supplements may not contain what they claim to contain. Also, individual horses with similar conditions may respond differently to the same products and doses. Some may show marked improvement, while other show little apparent

     

    There are so many formulas and acronyms, it's no wonder you're confused.

    Here are the most common ingredients you'll find in joint nutraceuticals and why they're in there.

     

        The same problem exists for human arthritis supplements. "Nutraceuticals," as these compounds are referred to, are not tightly regulated by the FDA, so "consumer beware" applies. It's easy to get lost among all the products, since there are around 75 different brands on the market, with many manufacturers offering several to choose from. What's more, new ingredients keep popping up.

        Equine joint supplements that have been on the market for a long time are probably reasonably effective. However, the best approach is to start by reading labels to make sure the product you are considering contains appropriate ingredients in the correct amount.

     

    <picture in magazine with following caption> "Heat, pain, and swelling are signs that a joint is under stress. Scientific studies are now supporting what many owners already knew-that nutritional supplements can alleviate pain and may help prevent further joint damage.

     

    Recipes for Relief

    -          Glucosamine and chondroitin seem to work better together than separately.

    -          Combination products work best when they contain the recommended therapeutic dose of each ingredient.

    -          Oral hyaluronic acid (HA) may help during flare-ups to reduce heat and swelling.

    -          MSM is an effective anti-inflammatory when fed at a dose of 20,000 mg/day.

    -          Vitamin C is important for joint health, but too much supplemental C can be harmful.

    -          There is no "arthritis mineral," although copper and zinc are important antioxidants.

     

        Glucosamine

        Glucosamine is the most well studied ingredient in joint supplements. It comes as either glucosamine sulfate or glucosamine hydrochloride. Both are effective. Glucosamine is the basic building block of all connective tissues, including cartilage, in all forms of life. Glucoasime is usually either manufactured in a pure form or isolated from sources high in glucosamine, like the outer coverings of shellfish. Some products may contain "natural sources> of glucosamine, such as the sternum or trachea (windpipe) from cattle or hydrolyzed collagen from other sources (skin, tendon, ligaments). Hydrolyzed collagen will be mentioned below, but when shopping for glucosamine, it's best to stick with either the manufactured pure glucosamine or shellfish sources.

        Glucosamine is effective in relieving pain, sometimes in as short a time as 10 to 14 days. Studies have shown that it can slow cartilage breakdown and may encourage healing. An effective dose is 6,000 to 10,000 mg/day. The 10,000 mg dose is usually needed for horses that are being worked. This higher level is also recommended during the first week or two of any horse's treatment, known as the "loading" period, which helps speed up results by getting a therapeutic level of the substance into the horse's system.

       

    Chondroitin

        Chondroitin sulfate is major structural component of cartilage, bone, and tough connective tissues such as the whites of the eyes. The pain-relieving effects of chondroitin are not as obvious as with glucosamin, although some observers report that horses on chondoitin only seem to move more "fluidly" overall. Formal studies on chondoitin give mixed results, with its greatest benefit appearing to be prevention of further cartilage breakdown. An effective dose is between 1,250 and 5,000 mg/day.

       

    Glucosamine + Chondoitin

        The most recent research is showing superior results for combinations of glucosamine and chondroitin, as contrasted to results when either substance is used alone. Many equine joint supplements now combine these two ingredients (among other things). What you will often find, though, is that a product may contain both ingredients, but the dosage of one, or both, is low compared to the individual dosages listed above. Products may claim - or imply - that when the ingredients are combined, you can lower the doses and get the same effect. But this has never been studied or documented. Some, but far from all, of these lower-dose products actually do work, but there are no formal, long-term equine studies to show us what's going on in the horse's joints. For the moment, your best bet is to use a combination product that supplies a full dose of glucosamine (for pain control) and as close to a correct dose of chondroitin as you can find.

        Keep in mind that glucosamine and chondroitin are the cornerstones of any joint supplement program. Unless new research eventually shows something else works better, you should focus on those two. However, anything you pick up is likely to have a much longer list of ingredients.

        So what about the other stuff?

       

    Hyaluronic Acid

        Glucosamin and chondroitin were being used in human arthritis patients before those ingredients spilled over to use with horse, but equine medicine has always had the jump on human medicine when it comes to hyaluronic acid. It is an important component of both the cartilage itself and the joint fluid. Hyaluronic acid first appeared as an injectable drug in the 1970s. (It was actually on the black market from Europe and Canada for a few years before FDA approved its use in American products.) Most recently, hyaluronic acid has been available as an oral supplement. Hyaluronic acid is particularly good for controlling pain, heat, and swelling. The gel formulations cost more, but seem to give the most rapid and reliable results. Dosage is 100 mg/day.

        Hyaluronic acid is also found in a variety of powdered supplements. Addition of as little as 20 mg of hyaluronic acid (also know as "hyaluronate") to glucosamine and chondroitin combination product may make a difference for some horses. In other cases, you will have to use the full 100 mg dose if even more. If your horse has not responded as well to glucosamine and chondroitin as you had hoped, this is a reasonable next step. You can get an idea of how your horse may respond by first trying a gel in addition to your regular supplement for a few days.

       

     Avocado and Soy Unsaponifiables (ASU)

        Avocado and soy unsaponifiables are plant fats that are normally protected from digestion and absorption in the intestinal tract but are extracted and purified by a special procedure. In an equine study where arthritis was induced by a surgical procedure, these substances showed a protective effect against cartilage breakdown in a group of supplemented horses compared to those not supplemented. However, they did not appear to have an effect on pain. Yet studies in other species have shown that the release of inflammatory substances is inhibited, while growth factors needed for repair and maintenance increase. ASU is classified as a "chondoprotective" (chondro = cartilage). It is a slow-acting substance. You won't see results overnight. How ASU compares to glucosamine and chondroitin, and whether adding it to a standard combination-type supplement improves the effect, is currently unknown. Effective equine dose is at least 1,200 mg/day.

       

    Methylsulfonylmethane (MSM)

        Although it is still not clear how methylsulfonylmethane (MSM) works, or what the long-term side effects might be, it is an effective anti-inflammatory. One equine study in horses with hock arthritis showed it takes a dose of at least 20,000 mg/day to be effective. MSM is added to many joint supplements but rarely in doses that high. To assess your horse's response to MSM, buy a pure MSM product and add that at varying doses.

       

    Hydrolzed Collagen

        Collagen is a protein that forms the structural framework for all connective tissues in the body, including bone and cartilage. Hydrolyzed collagen is collagen that has been purified and also broken down into smaller protein units for easier digestion and absorption. It has naturally occurring amounts of glucosamin, chondroitin, and hyaluronic acid, but the benefit is believed to come from the connective tissue-specific protein and amino acids. Collagen hydrolysates have been used to promote wound and ulcer healing, and most recently, as a treatment for arthritis. Data is scanty to date, with no equine studies, but there my be an improvement in pain and joint function. However, the dosages required to get this effect in people have been quite high, and a horse may need as much as 40,000 mg a day. There is no information available on combinations of hydrolyzed collagen and other joint supplement ingredients.

       

    Cetylated Fatty Acids (cetyl myristoleate, or CMO)

        First discovered as a substance produced in a strain of mice that were remarkably resistant to arthritis, CMO (sometimes marketed under the name Celadrin) has received mixed reviews. It may help with pain and protect cartilage in some cases. It works better when combined with therapeutic dosages of other joint support nutrients, but no studies have been done to compare the combination of CMO with glucosamine/chondroitin versus just the glucosamine and chondroitin alone. Minimum equine dose is likely to be at least 1,400 mg but there are no formal equine studies.

       

     Vitamin C   

        Vitamin C is essential for the health of cartilage and other connective tissues, but this is definitely an area where more is not better. Excessive amounts may even damage cartilage. No equine studies are available. The equine equivalent of a human dose found to have a mild effect would be 4,000 mg/day, but a horse's body is capable of manufacturing its own vitamin C, and this could be too high. A horse on fresh pasture is taking in about 1,000 to 2,000 mg/day of vitamin C from grass.

      

      Herbs

        A variety of anti-inflammatory herbs are often added to equine joint supplements, but "it's in there" is no guarantee the amount being added is enough to have any effect. These herbs are most useful for horses that continue to have pain despite adequate doses of other joint nutraceuticals. The list of herbs is a long one, but here are some of the most commonly used and their likely effective dosages:
    • Devil’s Claw – 2,500 mg of a standardized 0.25% harpagoside extract
    • Yucca – 3,000 mg/day of 10% saponin powder to 15,000 mg/day of 2% saponin powder
    • Boswellia – 500 mg/day of extract
     Manganese       Manganese is a trace mineral (meaning that it’s needed in very small amounts) that plays a critical role in cartilage metabolism. Manganese is required for the production of chondroitin sulfate in the body. However, if your horse’s hay, pasture, and grain are like the vast majority, he is not only meeting his minimum requirements but probably getting a lot more manganese than he needs. There are no studies, in any species, connecting manganese deficiency to arthritis or showing a benefit for supplementing manganese. With minerals, more is definitely not better. Avoid manganese entirely or find the lowest dose you can (25 mg or less) while still getting the other ingredients you’re after.       Copper and Sulfate       These minerals aren’t included as commonly, but since we just talked about manganese, this is a good place to discuss them. Many equine diets are both high in manganese and low to downright deficient in copper and zinc. Copper plays a key role in connective tissue formation, and both copper and zinc are involved in one of the body’s important antioxidant enzyme systems. Long story short, your horse’s mineral supplements really should be based on his overall diet. There is no “arthritis mineral.” Copper and zinc are commonly deficient in the equine diet, so it makes more sense to supplement them than manganese. But there’s no guarantee that the amounts in a supplement will be appropriate for your horse’s diet. If they are in the supplement, 50 mg of cooper and 150 mg of zinc are reasonable and safe potshot levels.         Summing Up·         Don’t wait until your horse is severely lame to start a joint supplement. Some changes may be irreversible.·         Start with a supplement that provides 6,000 to 10,000 milligrams (mg) glucosamine and 1,250 to 5,000 mg chondroitin. ·         Hyaluronic acid is most useful for acute flare-ups or for horses with persistent heat and swelling, which indicates ongoing inflammation.·         Avocado and soy unsaponifiables (ASU) and cetylated fatty acids (CMOs/Celadrin) are both slow-acting ingredients that may protect against further cartilage breakdown. Don’t Wait. . . until your horse is severely lame to start a joint supplement.Although cartilage can repair itself to some extent, once breakdown starts, it is difficult to get on top of it enough to push the balance in favor of healing. Once cartilage is severely thinned or completely work through, the damage may be irreversible. Uncontrolled arthritis can also lead to the buildup of bone/calcium around the joint, which limits movement and is also irreversible. Horses that have not progressed this far will have a better response to joint supplements. No Response? You May Need to ExperimentWhat about nonresponders?

                Joint supplement aren’t magic wands that will instantly transform an arthritic horse, but they do help most horses. If yours doesn’t respond to a supplement with correct dosage