I just started riding western and wanted to know what bit to use for my gelding.  He is currently ridden in a kimberwicke when we ride English.  What western bit would be close to this?  He is hard to turn and runs right through snaffles.  Thanks 

A kimberwick is basicly a mild curb bit.  I'm assuming you are using the hooks.  What mouthpiece are you using?  You can find similiar bits in a Western style.

Now, you mentioned that he's hard to turn, and ignores a snaffle.  The problem is a training issue, not the bit.

You need to supple your horse, and teach him to give to pressure.  Start with a rope halter, stand to the side of your horse, and bend his neck about 1/2 way.  Hold your rope hand on the top of his withers.  Your other hand can be on his butt, so you move with the horse.  He will likely try to walk away to escape the pressure.  Move with him until he stops moving his feet.  He will still likely pull against the halter.  Hold it steady until he slightly "gives".  That is, moves his nose closer to his girth.  When he does, immediately RELEASE the halter!  Rub him, praise him, and do it again.  Do it about a dozen times on each side.  Do this every day for a week.  You will be amazed at how much softer he will become.

Once mastered with a halter, start over again with a bridle, on the ground. 

Once that's mastered, then do it mounted.  Pull the reins towards your hip.

I started suppling using the rope halter on my yearling filly today.  It took her about 1/2 hour to figure it out.

2k10h

 Its a jointed mouthpiece. Like this one. I know he needs to learn to give and will try what you said but in the meantime I would like something he will listen to when riding western.  He becomes a runaway if I try him in a snaffle.  I have a tom Thumb with a chain would that work?  Thanks for the advice!

mfairc5:

He is hard to turn and runs right through snaffles.

2k10h is indeed correct. This is a training issue that needs to be worked out in the round pen or arena on a simple O or D-ring SNAFFLE. Not a more severe bit. The suppling exercises are important and should be done before every ride to loosen up your horse on both sides. He's an athlete and needs to warm up first.

This sounds like an experienced horse. English differs from Western mostly by having constant LIGHT contact with the horses mouth. Western is more of a slack rein. If he's not turning easily and learned how to take your hands away (running through the bit), it usually indicates his riders have been into his mouth way to much and he's had enough of it. Going to a harsher bit to try to regain control through the introduction of discomfort or pain will only open the door for more frustration for both horse and rider. Your Kimberwicke is comparatively a thin wire snaffle and is already one of the more severe snaffle bits. I still suggest going BACKWARD to a thicker standard snaffle for training. That's the first thing I do with ALL my horses in training, no matter what level of experience or issues we're working on.

On a snaffle, I suggest following the suppling instructions, practice complete doubling on both sides, one-rein stops on both sides and pay particular attention to keeping the horses head DOWN so the snaffle remains effective. When the horse extends or raises his head he can force the bit deep into the corners of his mouth and clench it in his teeth. And pulling straight back on the reins with high head position will also put the bit there for him. At that point you have to rely upon brute strength to get his head back and you'll lose that battle every time. Any bit needs to rest on the bars (toothless gum area between the front and back teeth) to work. Keeping the horses head... and YOUR HANDS... low is how the bit stays in place. During practice walk/ trot exercises you can get your horse to lower his head to an angle where the bit stays on the bars by gently see-sawing the snaffle back and forth, stopping when the head position is where you want it.

It'll take a while to get the horse to understand where you want his head and realize he doesn't need to seize the bit to avoid it. Only lower his head. So don't expect complete success quickly. And don't forget to reward him by giving him a slack rein IMMEDIATELY when he complies. Most riders want instant fixes to this type of problem and that's when they start acquiring a large collection of bits ($$$) and accumulating additional "training problems" (more $$$). Go back to the basics, do it CORRECTLY and you'll regain control and also get a much more appreciative horse. The best trainers have patience, persistence and consistency. And so do the best riders. Good luck! ~FH

 Is there a way to do this from the ground first?  The problem is he has never listened to a snaffle from the time I got him till now.  I tried to revert to a full cheek snaffle and he took off to where it was almost impossible to stop him even with a one rein stop.  I don't want to get hurt in the process.  My trainer was the one who upgraded him to the kimberwicke and he does fine in it.  i don't like using a harsher bit on him but he is spooky and having him bolt when i am on him would not be a good thing.  I have an arena to work him in that I can rope off to make small, I start each session with some flexing, a "join up" free lunge and then I ride.  He has had issues with the bit since day 1 and is really hard to bridle.  I am not a trainer but think given some direction I can work him through this.  I also want to ride him western and was wondering if a tom thumb would be something to try with him?  Thanks for the help!

I agree with all the answers so far. You need to go back to basics. Your comments about spooking, bolting, running through the snaffle are not going to be "fixed" by your current bit. Your horse is scared and has not developed trust in you as his handler. The only way to fix this is to start from scratch, aka "take the trash out of the trailer". A harsher bit will only mask the problems you have. You state you cannot ride him in a snaffle. The answer to that is, go back and start your ground work. If your current trainer's only suggestion is to use a harsher bit, find a new trainer, one that can help you really fix the underlying issue of trust and respect. This will also mean that YOU have to obtain new skills. Obviously you care a lot about your horse. Forming a respectful partnership will enable yo uto do way more things than ride him in a snaffle. Good Luck!

The very first thing you need to do with this horse is have his mouth and teeth thoroughly evaluated by an equine dentist to eliminate any issues with teeth problems.  The other advice would be to try a "straight" bit, like a reining bit or pleasure bit that is not broken in the middle.  Some horses mouths are "flatter" in the roof and the broken bit hurts when it constantly hits the top of the mouth.  I have seen this alot with "western" horses and even in "english" horses too.  People have the misconception that a straight bit is harsh; ANY bit is harsh if not used properly and it sounds like your horse has been a victim of this circumstance for too long.  All the previous advice is excellent.  You definitely need to gain the trust and respect of this horse through ground/roundpen work and teach him to flex and be supple.  Good luck!

I agree with the bit choices as well, I'm anti-Tom Thumb, and very pro- snaffle, especially for training.  It will help to keep his mouth soft and receptive.  Later you may want to look at the Myler comfort snaffles, level 2/3.  The one I use is a three-piece with short, swept-back shanks.  It's pretty mild, but as mentioned earlier, it depends on how soft the rider's hands are.  Something else to consider:  When initially asking your horse to bend, try to do a little bonding with him.  If you bend down so you're a little closer to where his head will be when he's bent toward you, you can softly rub his eyes once or twice, breath into his nose, speak softly, etc.  Make it a nice, safe place for him to want to be.  Then, when you ask him for a one-rein stop he will happily give it to you, because he knows it's a good place.  It doesn't happen overnight, but you will see progress if you're patient and persistent, and reward even the smallest try.  My recommendation- check out Sylvia Scott's website.  It's always there for you, with hundreds of already-asked and -answered training problems under her Q&A column.  The folks here on this blog also know what they're talking about!   Just have patience, most of all.  Good luck!

I agree with the other posters that the horse needs work on softening.  Beyond that. The tom thumb is not a bit I would use. They are not allowed in most show settings. You have to have a minimum shank lenght.  Check the rules in your show circuit.

I would go on-line and look up the Mylar bits. Find one with the similar mouth as you use on the kimberwick and go from there. I have a highly trained mare that was an english only horse. I tried to train her to go western when she was younger and it was not a go. Could not find a bit she was happy in. I tried again off an on with other bits over many years. I picked up a mylar at a tack sale and she loved it. Unfortunatly it came into the mass collection when she hit 24 and I retired her later that year. She is since only ridden in a halter except when she has to carry the little ones. Then its her hollow mouth snaffle.  Good luck on the bit search. I know how long it can take.(mine was about 14 years)

You really need to try getting your horse to flex and train it to give to the bit.  If you don't know whaat i'm talking about find a trainer who does and get some instruction or pointers from them or buy or rent a video or book that will show you how.  A horse who runs through the bit is not a safe horse.

Yes freestyle is correct about the mylar bits, (I use one myself) but, I still think you need the flexation to do the job correctly.

The training advice is great!  Since he has always been sensative to the bit have you had his teeth checked by a horse dentist?

Yes his teeth have been checked and done consistently.  He has a bit of wavy mouth so the vet has to float him twice a year- last one done in April.  She was just out 3 weeks ago and looked at his mouth and said that nothing should be affecting his riding.  He had a bad experience with a broken wolf tooth and the bit that was already happening when i got him and didn't know it.  That has long been fixed but has really caused some of these issues.  he has always had issues with listening to the bit so it was not my doing and I have made strides in this but he still has some issues.  He works fine in the kimberwick and though I would like to get him in a snaffle right now for him to be ridden safely the kimberwick is what I am using.  I do ground work with him every time I take him out- either lunging or "join up" exercises, desensitizing and so on.  I will try the flexing and other items as suggested and work him down to a softer bit.  It is not only about him not trusting me as he is spooky in the field at times too, its just his personality.  he doesnt bolt and take off its more like a startle jump and stop.  I mainly want him to listen and give and not fret about the bit so I am willing to try anything.  Also I do not show so whether a bit is show sanctioned or not does not matter to me.  Thanks for all the advice I really appreciate it.