UPDATE (thanks for the replies so far): he is out in pasture 24/7 and he is 9, so not old.  

In most disciplines, isn't it common to walk a horse on a loose rein for several minutes to warm up? Well I've tried that with my horse, but then I spend half an hour (especially if it's a lesson) asking him to go easy, slow up, stop, etc. He loves to work and is a very forward horse, he has energy and power, but he is not out of control. It gets really frustrating - and boring - in a lesson to spend half of it slowing down. He knows all the ins and outs of the lessons, even if the trainer changes it up. As soon as he thinks its his turn to canter he would go from a stop, but then we have to walk for a few minutes because of this anticipation, so he does what I ask when I ask. So I am going the alternate path - more forward first - and then see what happens. I am going to try taking the first 10 minutes to trot or canter and let him expend some of his energy.

I also wonder if hunters is for him. I am taking him to a dressage trainer in Sept. and see how that goes. I did some lessons a couple years ago, and a clinic and he did really well. It about killed me (out of shape!) but he had fun the whole time. He also enjoys jumping, so we're doing beginning work in that (low crossrails, we'll progress as I feel confident).

This is a horse I had at a trail riding barn for 1 1/2 years and we did many 3-6 hour rides (including several hills) after which he would act like, okay is that it? We're done? Okay, then time for supper! He might have been a little sweaty but not used up.

Anyone else have a more energetic horse that does better with a cool down first rather than a warm up? If wondering, he is a Lippitt Morgan (the original, old timey blood line, breeded to work long hours and keep their energy up on minimal food). He is basically a calm, well-mannered, good minded horse. On the ground, you would think he is a deadhead. Get in the saddle and he is ready to go. He does have a good stop, and listens to leg cues - very responsive. I would like to ride him 4 times a week, but with thunderstorms and excessive heat, have only ridden a couple times a week lately.

He gets 1/2 scoop low starch pellet feed, twice a day, and is supplemented with hay morning and evening. They were giving 2 pads each time, but he was getting fat so he and the 2 other easy keepers put in his pasture are on one 1 pad, morning and evening. The pasture is poor due to the drought here. 

I'll be the first to admit, I don't know a thing about riding English, although I have ridden in an English saddle one time, but I always thought the warm up was more for the safety of the horse, than anything.  You know, walk the first mile out and the last mile back?  Sounds like you might run the risk of injury starting out faster rather than slower.  Maybe you just need to start warming up earlier?  Just my thoughts. . .

 TXspots, you're right.  The horse can have loads of energy but still needs to walk around a little to loosen up muscles and flex joints under a rider's weight.  It's easy to forget that when they're loose in the pasture, they're not carrying weight.  I may be perfectly warmed up right this minute to walk out to the barn and let the horses in for afternoon nappies.  Ask me to do it carrying a bag of grain, and I'll need some loosening up first . . . THEN I'll hit you with the grain bag and tell you to do it yourself.  

QHAllAround:

Unless your horse is confined to a stall all day with no ability to move naturally walking is doing nothing for him as far as warm up.

 Well, like I said right off, I don't know much about English riding :-)  but I have ridden horses since before I myself could walk, and I know that running before you walk (in other words, not starting slow) is not a very good idea, in general:

"First, always, always, always WARM UP your horse thoroughly. As he gets older, he will probably need a longer warmup -- more walking, more trotting, more long-rein quiet canters in a half-seat. If you walk for fifteen minutes, ask for a trot, and your horse offers a canter, accept it and let him roll on. Many older horses are more comfortable if they are allowed to canter before they trot, because they find it easier to stretch their muscles at a gentle canter. So, if Sam is one of these horses, it won't hurt him to canter before he trots -- but always warm him up well at the walk first."   -- Dr. Jessica Jahiel

And this excerpt from an article on The Horse website:

Research at the University of Kentucky compared the effects of 13 minutes of mild warm-up (walking) to 13 minutes of  intensity-specific warm-up (walk, trot, canter and 20 seconds of  gallop) on horses that performed either a high intensity (near maximal) sprint for 70 seconds  or a  moderate exercise bout for 210 seconds.

The intensity-specific warm-up resulted in reduced lactate concentrations during the 70-second sprint, but not during the moderate exercise bout. In the study conducted at Ohio State University, a high-intensity warm-up (7 minutes of low-intensity work followed by three 45-second sprints) resulted in earlier fatigue than a 10-minute low-intensity warm-up.

JMFriedman:

 TXspots, you're right.  The horse can have loads of energy but still needs to walk around a little to loosen up muscles and flex joints under a rider's weight.  It's easy to forget that when they're loose in the pasture, they're not carrying weight.  I may be perfectly warmed up right this minute to walk out to the barn and let the horses in for afternoon nappies.  Ask me to do it carrying a bag of grain, and I'll need some loosening up first . . . THEN I'll hit you with the grain bag and tell you to do it yourself.  

And the closer you get to the feed shed, the heavier those things get, don't they? 

My hubby's horse has a lot of go also, and on most days he's pretty good after a warm up, he gets pretty settled; until the first few strides of a lope, then by gosh it's all or nothing and he's ready to run the Derby for about another 30 minutes.  And on windy days?  Oh brother, you just better be ready to really ride those days, there's no stopping him no matter how much he warms up!  You ask for a trot and it's like, "are you sure?  wouldn't it just be much more fun to go ahead and just flat out GALLOP?"

653439:

UPDATE (thanks for the replies so far): he is out in pasture 24/7 and he is 9, so not old.  

 

Right - I saw that in your original post, I was just giving some supportive back-up information in general, not trying to show that you should walk your horse because he is "mature"   and probably doesn't have any weight on his back while he's in his 24/7 pasture. . .thanks for the update!  I know this is frustrating situation for you, but I bet you'll get some good info from this forum that will help you - good luck!

 I've been told by pretty much every instructor I've ever had that to be effective, your warmup should include many changes of direction, gait, and speed within gaits, not to mention asking the horse to back a couple of times. You do the same thing whether you are lunging or riding. Ten minutes of doing all that is a lot different from ten minutes of just walking, and more interesting for both you and your horse.

 Sometimes it's helpful to experiment with different things to see what works best for your horse as far as responsiveness. Mine responds well to an early canter (not right off the bat) because she's pretty lazy and needs the energy infusion. But if I do that on hot, humid days I plan to put her away sooner to avoid overtiring her.

 Thanks everyone! All your posts were very helpful. I have read and considered them all. I think stretching (flexing) is very important (I learned that long ago at a dressage barn but forgot it along the way), and some walk, trot and canter, on a loose rein, with changes of direction and bending, all are good warm ups. Plus it gets his mind on the job at hand vs. what's going on across the street in the other ring or what the mares are doing in the pasture next to the ring.

How about some very low crossrails at a trot? He loves those, or anything with poles. Is that a good way to stretch out?

Yes, that the weather can make a difference but it has to be pretty hot for him to slow down. I am also checking saddle fit. I have 2 saddles, one which the trainer said fit him and now that I am looking at it closer I think it is too narrow for him and could be causing him to rush. I will only ride in the other saddle, with a slightly wider tree, and see if he relaxes. Last time I rode, I walked a couple of minutes, then walking cirlces and serpentines, then the same trotting, with transitions b/n walk and trot, with no stirrups (sprained ankle). After about ten minutes I asked for a walk on a loose rein, his head relaxed and I heard him sigh. So we are making progress and I know how important the "warm up" is for helping the horse to relax and then take up contact, etc.

 I think people get far too obsessed with 'shoulds' and 'usuals' and 'what everyone else does/says' etc. What works for the horse is the most important thing when riding. If he doesn't want to walk around on a long rein, let him trot.

 I often go into the arena and give the horse a long rein and, if it is an anxious, forward horse, I just sit quiet, keep him on a circle and let him pick the pace. After 5 mins or so, once he realises that you aren't going to pull on him , most of them will slow up and relax. Often anxious jogging/tense horses are accostmed to riders pulling on them all the time to slow them down and they get into the habit of pulling back against the rider  and rushing. By dropping the outside rein altogether and just using the inside rein to keep him on a circle (prevents mad acceleration!) the horse soon realises that the rider isn't going to do anything and starts to relax and slow of his own accord. At this point, the rider can start to pick up the contact and ask the horse to work a little more sensibly. 

I can't work out from your post if you are saying that you cannot get your horse to walk round on a long rein? So you are saying that the moment your ass hits that saddle your horse is off? This sounds like quite a serious training issue (probably not yours as you say he has been like it for years). I would look into getting another instructor, perhaps one who specialises in retraining horses who will be able to help you. I have delt with and fixed horses like this but I wouldn't want to do it over an internet forum TBH.  

Energetic horses do very, very well at dressage, and many horses are just too 'up' for hunters.  You DO see many dressage riders slogging around at a 'going-to-the-cemetary' trot that is very slow, who value more than anything, that the horse's head is still and low, but there's a lot more to dressage than that.  The horses that move up the levels and do really well are actually very, very energetic and lively, and they need a lot of energy to be competitive at dressage.  At one show we were watching one rider and some vultures were circling overhead, my coach said, 'Good lord, here come the vultures, come on honey, get a move on, they think you're dead!'  You CAN see a lot of that in lower dressage but it isn't really what it's about.

From the dressage perspective, every horse needs a different kind of warmup, and they will tell you what sort of warmup they need.  If the horse wants to do an active canter to warm up, do it.  We have this sort of crazy 'religious belief' in America that every horse must warm up for a long time at the walk with its head way down.  It just isn't true.  That long walk on the long rein is just not the best for many horses.  People insist on doing it and that the horse needs it...and you can't tell them otherwise, but it just isn't true.

 However, letting him go, or even, tiring him out, instead of making him listen to you isn't really an answer either.  he may be excited and want to canter, but he may canter in a tense, excited way that doesn't really stretch his muscles.  With the energetic horse a good strong trot might warm him up better than the canter, if he gets really tight cantering.

Even if you do a canter warmup, try to get the horse to listen to you while you are doing it.  What I do with one of my horses to warm up is piaffe and gallop, LOL.  With another one, it is stretching, but really, only a little at the walk, much of the stretching is at the trot and canter and that sort of stretching is much more useful than stretching at the walk. 

With the one horse he is very lazy, and very long in the back and neck.  It is much more of a problem collecting him, he comes out 'pre stretched' and very, very loose, so stretching at a walk was about the worst thing you could do.  Another one of my horses is very compact and very tense, and while he can't always bear a walking stretch, he feels very happy if he can canter or trot and get his muscles loosened up.

 Oh, so true!  In fact, I've found that the same horse may need a different warmup on different days depending on his mood, the direction of the wind, the phase of the moon, or how many chipmunks he's hallucinating in the footing.    My Zip, for instance, normally does well with a walking warmup working up to a shoulder-in (my version) prior to anything more mentally taxing.  Tuesday, however, he was in Full Idiot Mode and needed 30 minutes of Speed Dressage work prior to the five minutes of lateral work we managed before I pooped out.  I settled for his incessant yelling to the herd being amped down to a whisper and the return of some braking power.  Some days, you take what you can get.

Hi there - I would agree with the other posters in saying that warming up is crucial. I have a horse who can get very excited if not ridden for a day or so and with the weather its not possible to ride as much as I would like either. I like to lightly lunge my horse first before I ride as he is far calmer walking on the lunge that with a rider, he also tends to relax and streatch himself while walking and trotting on the lunge.  I'd recomend lots of transitions and collecting and lengthening his walk and trot while warming up to get him to listen to you.

 If he likes pole work then what about introducing trotting poles  into your warm-up.

Just an idea, good luck. 

WOW YOUR HORSE SOUNDS SOOOOOOOO MUCH LIKE MINE!  

 i just have one question first. what kind of bit do you ride in?  

my mare is a deadhead on the ground but when you first get on she has a HUGE spurt of energy and i have to spend a a long time warming up.  about a month ago when i took her to a show and she behaved badly is when i decided to try a new approach. {i ride english} when i get on i used to walk around on a loose rein  but now i have started getting on and having some light contact and walking in each direction for about 5 min. just figure eighting, circling jumps, and doing things for her to channel her energy mentally. when i begin to trot i have to let her trot continually for about 15-20 min doing again figure eights, and raised trot poles. after a couple of rides it began to retrain her brain to think slow about what is coming up next instead of whats now.

well i hope i could be of assistance!