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Will my horse make it as a dressage horse?

Last post 10-27-2009 6:47 PM by dressagerider3. 5 replies.
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  • 08-09-2008 6:43 AM

    Will my horse make it as a dressage horse?

    FlyI have a 3 year old TB, never raced.  I got him last year in hopes that I could make him into a dressage horse.  I have had a hunter/jumper trainer look at him and she said he would not make a dressage horse, but would make a great hunter/jumper.  However she doesn't do dressage so I want a dressage persons opinion.  When I lunge him, he's got a great stride (will extrend trot) and will half pass out of the lunge circle when pushed out.  He's very flexible.  To me when I think hunters, I think of more thin long necked horses that carry their necks/heads low and take low jumps nice and easy.  Jumpers I think of fireballs ready to explode.  There's been a few jumpers that dressage riders (pros) have taken and made into dressage horses and in this area as it's not that competitive, I've seen people show up at dressage shows with their hunter horses place in the dressage ring without being on the bit or have a correct head carriage.  I don't want to be one of those, I want to have a true dressage horse.  I was just surprised that she said he wouldn't go far...what do you all think?  (PS:  Not flaming hunter jumpers, been there done that, showed them and not interested in that anymore).  Also, would like to take him to a few combined events as well if he likes jumping.

    I've never done this so I hope the pictures show up. 

     

    Go to

    http://mnmschipperkes.homestead.com/Horse.html

     

     

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  • 08-10-2008 12:21 PM In reply to

    Re: Will my horse make it as a dressage horse?

     I've said it once, I'll say it a million more times:  ANY horse with three decent gaits can be a dressage horse!  So yes, absolutely, you can do dressage with your boy.  Dressage is NOT (well, it's not supposed to be) about head carriage or frame, it's about moving in a rhythm with impulsion and relaxation.  Go for it and have fun!  No offense to h/j trainers intended, but they often make judgement calls like this and all it shows is that they have no real understanding of what dressage is.  I wish trainers would stick to what they know!!

    (and I just have to note, I do eventing and jumpers with my boy and he is not a fireball -- he's the calmest horse in the barn, LOL!)  :-)



    Solaris -- 16 hh Appendix Quarter Horse = MY DREAM COME TRUE!
    Wander With Wild Things
    We Are Flying Solo
  • 08-12-2008 5:28 PM In reply to

    Re: Will my horse make it as a dressage horse?

    Solaris:

     I've said it once, I'll say it a million more times:  ANY horse with three decent gaits can be a dressage horse!  So yes, absolutely, you can do dressage with your boy.  Dressage is NOT (well, it's not supposed to be) about head carriage or frame, it's about moving in a rhythm with impulsion and relaxation.  Go for it and have fun!  No offense to h/j trainers intended, but they often make judgement calls like this and all it shows is that they have no real understanding of what dressage is.  I wish trainers would stick to what they know!!

    THANK YOU! Lol! That's a pet peeve of mine too. Heck I do dressage with Bennett, and she's a pokey little QH. Now, we're not going into Prix St George or anything, but the basics of dressage can be done by pretty much anyone.

    To the OP, I noticed on your site saying that you hope to train your guy in eventing and dressage? Well I just watched the Olympic dressage, cross country and stadium jumping and the dressage they did was not different than our dressage national show we have up in in little ol' New Brunswick (not the quality of horses since those are some nice horses, but the actual test they were riding).

    You had some medium/extended gaits, shoulder-in's, half passes, keeping a counter canter lead on a half circle, some flying lead changes and going down the centre line in a straight circle. The horse that showed the most expressive gaits, cadence and seemed happy and submissive (as opposed to tense and fighting the bit) got the least amount of penalty points.

    No, you didn't have the big movement and piaffes that the "actual" dressage bred and trained horses would have, but the training to execute the shoulder ins and half pass, flying lead changes and straightness, suppleness, cadence is all the same, no matter the horse. Since eventers probably don't have any use for piaffing a horse, I don't see that option coming in their dressage test anytime soon! Someone who events can correct me on that.

    So I say go for it, send him for dressage training, or do it yourself, and see how far he can go. He may not be "built" for the high end dressage movement, or it may be difficult for him to do so, but my dressage coach rides a PMU foal that's a draft cross all the way to Prix St George so don't let anyone say it can't be done!



    CHECK OUT MY SITE FOR STALL SIGNS!
    http://my-horse1.piczo.com/tillysstallsigns?cr=7&linkvar=000044

  • 08-13-2008 6:58 AM In reply to

    Re: Will my horse make it as a dressage horse?

    There is absolutely no reason why your horse couldn't be a dressage horse.  You just need the dedication and commitment to stick with it.  Find a dressage trainer to help you out.  This trainer obviously doesn't know the first thing about dressage.  

    Have fun!  And welcome to the sport!  :)
    *~Nicole~*
  • 08-14-2008 3:55 AM In reply to

    Re: Will my horse make it as a dressage horse?

    A horse can't do a half pass on a longe line, sorry.  And a horse that's being longed in a halter or loose reins on his neck can't do an extended trot.  An extended trot is not just a long or fast stride.  That's an active trot, but it's not extended.  That comes from a long, long time of training and development.  It is the result of 'recycling' all that energy with half halts, causing engagement and a swinging back - further, it would NOT be something that would be safe or healthy to try and do on a longe line (even if one did know how to push and half halt on the longe line while longeing the horse) or even on a circle - not for a very, very long time....but you'll learn that...and more.

    No, it's not completely true that any horse that can walk trot canter can 'do dressage'.  Of course any sound, healthy, pain free horse can be schooled in dressage at home, and provide fun and pleasure for his rider.  And of course, as often said, 'dressage means training'.  But it doesn't really mean just 'training' to go and compete (or to meet traditional ideals in dressage at home), or to excel in competition at the top levels.

    Too, most people in dressage never ride at the top levels (FEI).  Most never go to the Olympics, or a national championship - most never go above training level, to be honest (99%).  But it's within everyone's ability to ride to fourth level - if they put in the work and keep their horse sound.  The really hard part is sticking with the instruction and doing the work for years and years.  No one really learns correctly and goes up more than one level a year, and even that rate of progress will only be possible with frequent lessons with a VERY experienced trainer.

    Your horse is beautiful and elegant.  You sit very well, with a nice straight back and correct legs - for hunt seat, though, not dressage.  You'll need to learn dressage position and how to use reins, seat, leg.  For most people, there are two things that limit them in dressage:

    1. keeping their horse sound (selecting a horse with 'sound conformation', preventative care, and treating any lameness that occurs)

    2. Learning it themselves, correcting their position, learning the figures, exercises, and accepting instruction

    It is only at a very, very high level that the innate talent of the horse starts to be a factor in competition success.  People worry far, far too much about the 'quality' or 'potential' of their horse at early stages, to be very, very honest...a little reality check - it is very, very unfair to expect most horses to 'do it all' in dressage - allow the rider to learn and teach his own horse, excel at every level.  That's often a young person's dream, to ride their beloved horse  that they have right now, in the Olympics!  It just doesn't really happen that way.   The kind, loving horse that allows the rider to learn on him is worth his weight in gold, but it usually takes a very different horse to excel in competition. 

    But whether the horse will be 'successful' or not depends on how you define 'success'.  Does it mean having some fun at a local 'schooling' (club) show, or winning a national or international championship, or something in between the two?  Does it mean a local ribbon at training level, or Olympic success at Grand Prix(the top level)?

    Even if success doesn't include competition at all, learning dressage well really requires guidance - from a knowledgeable, preferably USDF certified, instructor, and frequently.  An occasional lesson with this instructor and then that one, even occasional clinics here and there with this and that famous big name rider, doesn't lead to much success - neither does working with someone with no real experience or training in dressage.   When I was moving to a new area a hunt seat trainer came up to me and offered to get my horse ready for a show - just slap on those draw reins and he'll be perfect!  Nothing could be MORE wrong.  There's no point in wasting time with poor quality instruction (and someone who rides in another division, sorry, they just do not know dressage - the instructor needs training and experience or he just can't teach dressage).

    Working alone too much, it's just too easy to get into bad habits, and reading a book or seeing a video just doesn't  teach that 'feel' one needs - in fact, 'book only' dressage riders who don't get regular help are usually the most far off the track, they think they're doing it right, but they aren't.  They can quote tons of theory but can't ride or train correctly!  Books and videos help, but they need to be just one part of a total program, and they should never cause a rider to stop his lesson to argue with his instructor!!   

    Most riders who work alone alot, don't realize they're leaning off to one side, hiking up one hip or applying the wrong leg - keep in mind even the best Olympians have coaches, and usually work with them every single day - even after winning Olympic or world championship medals!

    At the same time, it doesn't work at all to be too perfectionist or hard on the horse or oneself - these people get bogged down and never get anywhere. 

    But it doesn't work to spend most of one's time walking on a loose rein, trail riding or doing other things with the horse.  Most successful dressage horses are trained 5-6 days a week - in dressage, and nothing else, with hacks after the lesson as a reward.  They are very, very happy doing so - IF the training is correct, they do not get sour at all....the rider is more of a problem!  Horses really like a routine - it's more often the rider that doesn't want to stick with it every day!

    Lessons long term, frequently are a big investment in money, but even more so, in time - both during the lesson and in practice after.  A person will spend months, years, getting lessons - mostly to 'unlearn' what they thought dressage is!  Too, that practice time is important.  You won't find anyone moving up the ladder in dressage on 1, 2, 3 brief rides a week.   Too many people think that because there's no jumping, dressage must be easy.  It is not easy to do well, or to learn.  And it really takes time, because much of it is building the muscles - in horse and rider. 

    It's true that many people think forcing a horse's head down with rhythmic jerks of the reins (it doesn't actually matter if it's jerks, 'spongeing', 'working the fingers' or even very, very gentle, it's still wrong), some appliance like a gogue or draw reins, means 'dressage' or 'on the bit'.  Jerking back and forth on the reins, even gently, to get the horse to put his head down, is not going to lead to any success.

    But many people go totally in the opposite direction, declaring that we should do dressage without ever using the reins at all, since that mean old bit is so painful and cruel, and contact with the reins is so cruel!  But look at the Spanish Riding School - the horses are ridden with a frank, even firm, contact with the reins.  While jerking and pulling or draw reins aren't the answer, the reins can't be tossed away either.  What's needed is something much more difficult than either of these - to use the reins in coordinated, sympathetic, educated way with the seat and leg aids.  The skill of the rider is what makes riding on a contact pleasant and rewarding for the horse.  And that means instruction.

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  • 10-27-2009 6:47 PM In reply to

    Re: Will my horse make it as a dressage horse?

    I own a TB that I ride dressage so I really like that look, and you have a really pretty prospect there. There is kind of a rule of thumb that says that most horses can make it up to about 3rd level without too much difficulty. After that the increased collection and lowered hindquarters could be difficult for him. I would say watch all the videos you can find and read all the stuff you see about training you see. There is a lot of REALLY bad information out there, some of it from supposedly reputable trainers so you need to be as informed as possible


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