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Teaching "Forward!!" in a young horse that only wants to back

Last post 01-07-2009 9:17 AM by dandykrayon. 9 replies.
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  • 01-05-2009 11:26 AM

    Teaching "Forward!!" in a young horse that only wants to back

    I have been doing ground work training a young TB/Perch cross gelding for a year now (he is almost two now).  He started out very dangerous, wanting to rear all the time, running away for hours on end in the pasture (one time it took me over two hours to catch him in a little 3 acre pasture) and scared for anyone or anything to touch him.  He has come a long way since then, and now he is generally very calm, easy to catch, and responds very well to pressure, especially laterally and backwards.  However, he has what I know to be a dangerous habit of backing up whenever he gets scared, and if restrained, he goes up and strikes out.  He has only gotten to the point of rearing when someone else was handling him (trying to help me, but it didn't really work); I don't let him get there.  But whenever he feels unsure of something, even if it's not in fright, he just backs up and keeps backing.  Also, despite the fact that we pay alot of attention to desensitizing to scary things, he is still very spooky and timid of trying new things; therefore, this backing problem comes up ALOT.  I know that I need to find his "forward button" now, and teach him to stand still even when he is scared, instead of backing, so that he does not learn to resort to backing and rearing later on, under saddle.

     I have tried just waiting with him when I start to feel him resist, until he relaxes and then asking again, but this rarely results in any progress, and sometimes when I let him think too long he decides he wants to back up anyway.

     I have also tried just ignoring that he's backing and going along with him, rewarding him when he finally stops, so that he associates stopping with safety.  This hasn't had any negative consequences so far, but doesn't seem to be getting us much closer to finding his "forward button" either.

    Of course, he is still very young and awkward (his croup is nearly three inches higher than his withers), so perhaps once he evens out it will be more pleasant to move out?  Another point I should mention is that he is very sensitive in that he gets confused and offended if I use too much force from behind (smacking with a crop or the end of the rope) to try to get him to move off.  I have dealt with horses like that before, but not quite to his extent.

    He is a very sensitive and smart horse, and very strong and well-built (once he catches up to himself of course) which makes me think he would eventually make a great dressage or jumping prospect, but I want to fix this problem now while he is young and get him thinking 'FORWARD!' more than 'backwards!!', and hopefully save myself from the rearing problem later on when I break him to saddle.

    Any suggestions/thoughts would be wonderful! I am rather at a loss on what else to try with him.

    "One thing thinketh the horse, and another he that saddles him."
  • 01-05-2009 3:19 PM In reply to

    Re: Teaching "Forward!!" in a young horse that only wants to back

     I have had two horse with vision imparement that responded this way.  I would suggest you get a good equine vet to check his eyesight.

    Rush60
  • 01-05-2009 3:37 PM In reply to

    Re: Teaching "Forward!!" in a young horse that only wants to back

    What was his initial start before you got him?  Being dangerous, wanting to rear, running away....  all sound like he had the number of whomever was handling him.  Since he's smart and sensitive, he's learned quickly about how to get out of work, which he also uses when he's scared.  

    I think you might be encouraging his behaviour when you go along with him when he backs and reward him when he stops on his own.  I see your point, but that makes it his decision.  The movement needs to be your decision and so does the cessation of the movement.  If he starts to back, YOU make him back and YOU choose the time to stop.  If he doesn't stop when you ask, keep backing!  You might end up in a different county, but the decision needs to be yours.  If you don't have that much room, turn it into a lateral move - make the wrong thing difficult and the right thing easy - standing still in easy, backing or lateral work is hard.

    You also said that he's very sensitive to too much force from behind.  Maybe he just doesn't quite get that cue, since he's so focused on backwards movement.  Can you trot him in hand?  Get him used to being cued for forward by a dressage whip, or lunge whip held in your left hand.  Be prepared for ANY forward movement and reward him for it.  He might take off, but you can refine that later.  Right now, we want forward.  If he's too strong, you can still practice walk/halts, working on a nice, prompt step off.

    As you say, he's still young and might work out of some of these issues, but he needs to understand that backing up (when not asked) is hard work.  I rode a retired school horse for a while and this was his method of getting out of work.  He never did it on the ground, only when someone was riding.  So, I spent a lot of time in reverse - we backed all over the arena, into ditches and up hills.  I would also turn his reinbacks into turns on the hindquarters and leg yields.  He eventually figured out that is behaviour was a lot of work and would go forward.  

    Good luck with your horse.  Let us know what happens!

    Cindy

    Fall grazing:
  • 01-05-2009 4:00 PM In reply to

    Re: Teaching "Forward!!" in a young horse that only wants to back

    I agree with the other poster, make the backing up as unpleasant as you can by making it your idea and making him do more than what he really wants to do.  Then when he is willing to give it up and go forward on your command, then reward him.  If he backs into an electric fence a few times, he may be more inclined to be a little more careful about where he is backing up to.  Maybe have a helper with a bucket of yummy grain in it to encourage forward movement.

    Good luck.

    Spotted Pony

  • 01-05-2009 4:30 PM In reply to

    Re: Teaching "Forward!!" in a young horse that only wants to back

    I actually have also tried that method of forcing him to back past the point when he wants to stop, but maybe I will stick with that idea but make it into even more work than I had before.

     Thanks for the advice so far! It really helps to get outside opinions!

    "One thing thinketh the horse, and another he that saddles him."
  • 01-05-2009 4:38 PM In reply to

    Re: Teaching "Forward!!" in a young horse that only wants to back

    Oh, and in response to the question of how he acted before I got him: he had never been handled before, and was only 7 or 8 months old when I started working with him on a regular basis.  He is part of a training program based out of my college's equine center.

    "One thing thinketh the horse, and another he that saddles him."
  • 01-06-2009 8:22 AM In reply to

    Re: Teaching "Forward!!" in a young horse that only wants to back

    i agree get his eyes checked out and if thats not a problem then making continuous backing up uncomfortable for him - keep making him back up ( not violently or anything like that) keep his feet moving backwards untill he learns that backing up isnt always fun.

    Image and video hosting by TinyPic This is me and my LIFE...
  • 01-07-2009 4:38 AM In reply to

    Re: Teaching "Forward!!" in a young horse that only wants to back

     Remmer's idea of using lateral work DOES work!  Jackson is still mad at me for making him go sideways instead of letting him do his own little thing.  If this horse doesn't know how to step sideways, you may want to teach him on the ground first.  Use a crop, and press the handle into his side (about the same pressure that you would use your leg) just behind the girth.  When he steps over, reward by taking the pressure off.  Make sure the back legs are crossing over each other as well as the front.  Soon it will become muscle memory, though still not as easy as going forward or back, to step over with the front legs and the hind.  (Do I have this right remmer??)






    There is something about the outside of a horse that is good for the inside of a man. ~Winston Churchill
  • 01-07-2009 8:37 AM In reply to

    Re: Teaching "Forward!!" in a young horse that only wants to back

    Hi there,

    I like to introduce new objects - fly spray, hose, sacks, ropes, etc. - in a round pen where the horse is somewhat confined but can still move forward.  I DON'T get in front of them with the new object.  I always try to approach from the side and in your case you might want to do it slightly in back of his eye.  Make sure he can get a good look but knows he can move off (forward only!) if it gets too tense for him.  Don't restrict his forward movement.  When he moves forward, back off a bit and praise him.  Eventually, he'll get over his sensitivity to that object and want to check it out, but in the meantime you'll have taught him that 'forward saves all'.  If he tries to peel backwards, stay behind him with a lunge whip and remove that alternative.  It his mind, back can't be an option - it's either deal with the issue or move forward. 

    You also mentioned that he's pretty sensitive to his hind end.  Is he guarding that part of his body at all?  I'd make sure there's no physical reason why he's more sensitve back there and then work on sacking him out with a soft rope or bag (I like to put a shopping bag on the end of my lunge whip) and do the same excecise where he can move forward if it's too scary.  Eventually he'll get less sensitive to you being around his back end. 

    I like the other suggestions regarding lateral work also.  Anything to get his feet moving (at your direction) will help sort him out.

    Good luck and be careful! 

     

     

  • 01-07-2009 9:17 AM In reply to

    Re: Teaching "Forward!!" in a young horse that only wants to back

    I will definitely try out the round pen idea as often as possible.  Fortunately, I do have access to one, although it is regularly in use. 

    And yes, we do alot of lateral work on the ground (he is not under saddle yet), and he is very good at it actually (i only use only level 1 pressure on his rib cage and he steps sideways perfectly).  I will keep reinforcing that.

    "One thing thinketh the horse, and another he that saddles him."

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