My 5 year old quarter horse gelding has been keeping his head down much further than what is normal, almost to the ground. At the walk he seems okay. In the round pen lunging him, he will walk, trot, and canter normal with his head. It seems when I am riding him whether in the round pen, or the indoor arena, he will do this. He has been in a full cheek snaffle, and now I am starting him in a low port curb, with a loose shank. I am doing this because when we ride out in the open fields, only at a walk for now, I need alittle more control. His health is fine, as well as the equipment, as it has been checked.. He is terrible at the trot, and when I have tried the canter. He has bucked a few times, when his head has been down like that, which makes me think one could be coming. I have tried pulling up the reins on him, taking in more slack, and trying to push him out of it with leg cues. He is a "social" personality horse, who will be getting a pasture buddy, in hopes of him using his energy up more in the pasture playing. In the roundpen, he will jog, walk, canter, whoa quite well. When I go out in the wide open, his head is normal, and he has a higher energy level, and gets alittle playful. He can be alittle testy, and I try to be firm with him, who is boss. I just can't figure what to do with his very low head position(as in possible buck coming) I thought at first lazy, but I don't think so, as we do a variety, as serpentines, and he just does the same. I know if I were to trot him in the field, he would do the same, as he did just that. any suggestions or comments? thankyou

It sounds like your horse was trained into that head position to show in western pleasure class. Seems to me your trainer should recognize that. ~FH

To be honest, his original trainer did very little. At age 2 they said they broke him, did alittle training, then threw him back out to pasture, with the rest of the horses, who at some point would also be sold, either thru auction, or private sale. Our trainer now says he just wants to try you every chance he can. She says he is social, very smart, but just wants to test, and putting his head down, has led to some bucks. She has been able to push him right through, spuring him, if she needed to to get to business, that he cannot play games, yet he tries and tries. She is firm, and surprises me too, that she has no fear, and will take him out in the 40 acre field, thru the woods, etc. He will still test, but she keeps on him. It seems to be a never ending battle with him. If you will look, I have another posting about his personality, which tells alot more. I am not sure if a pasture buddy will put him in his place, and use up his energy out there(he is almost "dead" in his pasture alone) He has gotten attitude since we came, as arching his tail way up, prancing, tucking in his head and whinnying, now and then out on the lunge line. The same "dead" horse! He gets 1/2# of safe choice nutrena, morning and night. I am thinking about selling him, cuz I just don't enjoy these antics, and immaturity he shows, and like I say he just continues to test. I am told that he just dosen't like to "work" sometimes, and you have to make him, and he gets ticked off. At the walk, when he is more normal, he holds his head just fine. We have tried all kinds of bits, from full cheek snaffles(john Lyons), to mild curb bits. He hated the tom thumb bit. Do you think his behavior will always be there, or will deminish thru time with his age, considering we are remaining firm with him? thankyou.

prairierose1:

I am thinking about selling him,

I think that's a good idea because this is obviously not the horse for you.  I think you totally misunderstand this horse and for some reason the advice of very experienced people here on this forum who have suggested the same is not making any difference.  I would suggest an older, much calmer horse with more miles on it for you.

If the horse was "broke" at two and then thrown back out to pasture he's not really trained.  "Spurring" him through his "antics" is a terrible idea, and to be honest I don't think much of your trainer based on your description.  Sounds to me like the horse needs to start all over with patience, not force.  It will likely take a long time.  These things don't happen overnight.

Sell him and find a more reliable mount (and trainer!).

I am sorry I did a poor job of explaining myself. Our trainer dosen't like spurs or physical force. The previous trainer who actually broke in the horse I bought loved spurs-too much. My horse sat awhile while we were at the old stable because it was so unsafe to get him out of the pasture, as the owners 4 horses were constantly kicking, biting and chasing him They would not seperate them. Their horse also knocked me down to the ground. I was the first boarder there. I got on a waiting list to get out of there asap, but had to wait about 3 months anyway for an opening. Another place had an opening right away, but I couldn't keep him outside all the time, still with a group of horses. At least he was in at night. So that was my fault that he didn't get worked as he should. I know that future boarders left that place too. Anyway, he is very social, always comes to meet me, great in the stall, being tied, getting a bath, letting me put branches around him, umbrellas, tarps etc. No problem. He just gets so happy to get out in the open. I do work him in the roundpen, and he does quite well. The trainer said to work him alittle more, to tire him out more, but not to overdue. I need to be patient more, and to keep at it. I suppose I could find a well broke horse out there, but then maybe his personality, wouldn't be as good. I sure wouldn't want a kind of horse from where we came from. Any time I have a question or concern, our trainer always tells me to ask, and never feel bad about asking. He will get involved and help. I just like to get others opinions too, on some subjects, just to get more thoughts about it, to learn more.

prairierose1:

Any time I have a question or concern, our trainer always tells me to ask, and never feel bad about asking. He will get involved and help. I just like to get others opinions too, on some subjects, just to get more thoughts about it, to learn more.

I agree with your trainer, totally, and with you about learning, I crave anything I can learn about horses.  And I'm sorry maybe I haven't been making myself clear when responding to your posts either, sometimes I have it straight what I want to say in my head, but have trouble typing it clearly.

prairierose1:

Anyway, he is very social, always comes to meet me, great in the stall, being tied, getting a bath, letting me put branches around him, umbrellas, tarps etc. No problem. He just gets so happy to get out in the open. I do work him in the roundpen, and he does quite well.

Working in the round pen is fine, to an extent, but I don't think it's enough for the type of horse you are describing. 

Here's what I understand from your posts;  this is a young, green broke 5 yr old who has fair ground manners but who spends most of his time in a small pen by himself with little to no turnout and little riding work where he has to use his mind and energy.  Is that a fair statement?

It's been my experience that a horse in this situation at this age needs more opportunities to get out of his pen and engage his mind and body.  When he acts fresh with some running and some bucks, he's not what I would call "being bad" per se, he's just being a 5 yr old who's kept in a small pen by himself and fed well.  He needs more of an output for his energy and on a regular basis to keep him on a more even keel. 

In a nutshell I think this horse needs more wet saddlepads, and if this is not what you want or look forward to riding (I personally love my "forward" QH), then you should consider an older, calmer horse with more miles on him that doesn't need to be ridden 3 or 4 days a week to stay that way.

Hope this helps.

He sounds like a very smart horse to me!  You're definitely going to have a deal with this directly and for quite a while.

A horse can't put out a very good buck unless he has his head down.  Whatever bit you decide to ride him in, you're most likely going to have to hold his head up the minute you feel it dropping, and pushing him forward.  This is an excellent time to do some long trotting!  It gets a lot of energy out, he can't do it very well with his nose on the ground, and you can do quite a bit of training at that pace (figure eights, lateral work, etc.).  When he gets tired or you feel him relax and quit testing you, then you can give him a little slack in the reins and quit driving him with your legs.  Don't be afraid to be insistant and forceful!  His job is to do what you tell him to (and it's not like you're asking him to do something difficult-not really focusing on a show headset or pace).  It's just a matter of making the right thing easy and the wrong thing hard :)  If he wants to drop his head too low, get prancy and fidgetty, etc. then he has to go long trot HARD and do things that require him to pay attention.  When he settles down, then he gets a break (slack reins, slow down, stop and stand, etc.)

Thankyou for your replies. I am told he is a very smart horse. Not too much scares him. He is very curious. I have a trainer helping me, and she has done what you suggested, and he has taken notice, and behaving better.I just have to carry on with that training, and be firm when needed. I am going to try dr cooks bitless bridlle and see what happens also. It sounds interesting, and is worth a try. He loves to get attention, and wants to have time spent with him, so he is getting more attention too. He is not agressive in his stall, or to other horses, and that is worth the effort to keep trying to work him thru this. He always comes to meet me with his ears forward, and follows me around. I don't have treats either, so it isn't for that reason he does. thankyou.

 I have a 3 year old stud colt that also likes to travel with his headset too low.  With my horse it is more something that was bred into him (he is foundation/old school western pleasure bred) as his forefathers all come from the days of peanut rolling pleasure horses.  To fix it I ride him in a rubber snaffle (thinner bits or bigs with too much leverage make him overbend even worse) and lift him up and push him foreward when he gets too low on me.  

As for the innapropriate behavior your horse has been giving you, I think that he needs more excersize and even more than that, you need to learn to be a stronger leader.  My horse WILL NOT buck, rear, or bite with me because he KNOWS without a doubt that I am his leader and that to do so would be insubordination! big time! lol!  he loves me to death, and I shower him with affection, but I also will kick his bum if he is dangerous or trying to usurp my throne so to speak.