Do horses 'bluff"?

Last post 10-10-2011 4:32 PM by 653439. 10 replies.
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  • 10-08-2011 11:53 AM

    Do horses 'bluff"?

    I am no horse expert but have read alot from top trainers and horses seem to be "black and white" thinkers - either you're an alpha or a follower, with training they try what you ask or stop trying the behaviors you don't want, they are looking for a clear yes or no answer.

    Situation: My horse stays in a pasture half a day (with round bales & 2 mares) and the dry lot next to the pasture for half a day. So one day I decided to get an armful of hay and throw it over the fence before I left. I did this once before, and the TB mare came over and acted like she didn't like it. Can't remember what she did but I was sure that was what she was communicating with her body language. A couple weeks later, I did the same thing (got some hay). She was at the end of the pasture (@ 2 acres) and came charging at me in a full run. I stopped and waved my arms and screamed as loud as I could at her. @ 15 feet from me, she swerved and went off, shaking her head. I got out of the pasture as quick as possible. After I threw the hay over the fence to my horse fo course - horse first, heart attack later.

     I told the barn manager, and it's not the first time she's done this type of thing - pinned someone in a stall, trapped someone else behind a tree. The owner tells people she's "bluffing". I don't believe that for a minute. I think the owner is kidding herself and she has a potentially dangerous/dominant/aggressive horse. I've seen her ride the mare, she can be a handful but the owner is an experienced rider and the outcome seems good.

    The TB mare's owner said her horse and mine got in a scuffle and she got injured. Well, my horse has had several scrapes and a couple hoof prints before (her horse has shoes, mine does not).

    I might ask my horse be moved to another pasture. 

    What do you think?

    MorganRider
  • 10-08-2011 12:36 PM In reply to

    Re: Do horses 'bluff"?

    Horses do not bluff. They mean exactly what they say. The charging, ear pinning, and head shaking is the mare saying, "I think I'm the one in charge here." She's not sure, yet--hence veering off before striking--but she's testing the water and pretty soon she's not going to veer off. She was calling you an extremely rude name by shaking her head at you. You were right to get "big" with her, and if you'd turned and run you would have convinced her what she was doing was working. She will continue to escalate her behaviors until she learns that she is NOT at the top of the pecking order.

    You're right, the owner is kidding herself. She may be a good rider, but she is not a good horsewoman or she would see what the mare is doing is a threat, not "bluffing". I suspect she--the owner--will not change her delusional thinking until someone gets hurt. I doubt it will be her b/c the way she rides the mare is telling the mare that the owner is in charge, and the mare cannot threaten her. But everyone else is in danger.

    The mare--AND definitely the owner--need some training about horse/human behavior and relationships. The problem is not the mare but the owner: if the mare were happy with the way the owner rides and handles her, she would not be aggressive and cantankerous. The mare's behavior will not change until the owner changes. You won't be able to teach the mare a new way of acting if she gets the same treatment from the owner.

    Since that is unlikely to happen, I would suggest moving your horse to another pasture and make sure both of you stay away from the mare. Sad situation, but it's played out all over the country at barns. Good luck, stay safe.
    Megan


    "The horse you get off is not the horse you got on. It is your job as a rider to ensure that as often as possible, the change is for the better."

    Anonymous




  • 10-08-2011 3:42 PM In reply to

    Re: Do horses 'bluff"?

     Interesting point about the mare being unhappy. The owner waits until she acts sore/lame to have her shoes changed.She's even said that it's time to get her shoes changed because she's acting uncomfortable. Ok, let's not go there, but good point. Poor horse.

    MorganRider
  • 10-08-2011 3:54 PM In reply to

    Re: Do horses 'bluff"?

    Yes, poor horse. Happy horses do not threaten.
    Megan


    "The horse you get off is not the horse you got on. It is your job as a rider to ensure that as often as possible, the change is for the better."

    Anonymous




  • 10-09-2011 6:15 AM In reply to

    Re: Do horses 'bluff"?

     Horses do not bluff, but they do escalate.  If she is dominant and aggressive, she will give a warning and if her warning is not heeded, then her actions will escalate as she feels necessary.  Proceed with caution and do not put yourself or your horse in a dangerous situation.



    Solaris -- 16 hh Appendix Quarter Horse = MY DREAM COME TRUE!
    We Are Flying Solo
  • 10-09-2011 7:10 AM In reply to

    Re: Do horses 'bluff"?

    653439:

    The TB mare's owner said her horse and mine got in a scuffle and she got injured. Well, my horse has had several scrapes and a couple hoof prints before (her horse has shoes, mine does not).

    I might ask my horse be moved to another pasture. 

    What do you think?

    Horses that are shod in the rear should never be pastured with unshod horses. That's like sending yours to a gun fight armed only with a knife. Good enough reason on its own to demand a separate pasture. ~FH
  • 10-09-2011 1:13 PM In reply to

    Re: Do horses 'bluff"?

     I agree with FloridaHorseman.  I thought it was pretty much standard practice in boarding barns.  Definitely ask that the mare be moved to another pasture.

  • 10-09-2011 4:01 PM In reply to

    Re: Do horses 'bluff"?

     Eh?  I never heard this one before.  I guess each BO has their own rules.  We have always managed ours so personality mesh and there are not kicking fights going on.  Shod or not shod does not come into play.  If the horses are out there kicking each other, sounds like poor herd management.



    Solaris -- 16 hh Appendix Quarter Horse = MY DREAM COME TRUE!
    We Are Flying Solo
  • 10-09-2011 8:13 PM In reply to

    Re: Do horses 'bluff"?

     Well, this is not the first pasture the mare has been moved from and for the same reason (chasing people away from their horses). I have made that request and appreciate your responses. Most other horses are only shod in front or are barefoot. The BO did mention putting her in a paddock by herself. Would be better for everyone. I've been out in the passture since the incident, a couple times, with a whip and shooed her away. Yeah, she'll shake her head and move away. I shooed her from the gate yesterday and she walked off but then turned her butt toward me. Not to kick, she wasn't close enough, but I know what that means!

    MorganRider
  • 10-10-2011 1:27 PM In reply to

    Re: Do horses 'bluff"?

    The whip was a good idea. It extends your arm without putting you in harm's way. She's listening to you with the whip, but she had to throw in the last word by pointing her butt at you. Too bad you have to do that.
    Megan


    "The horse you get off is not the horse you got on. It is your job as a rider to ensure that as often as possible, the change is for the better."

    Anonymous




  • 10-10-2011 4:32 PM In reply to

    Re: Do horses 'bluff"?

    Good news - talked to the BO who is switching pastures, so my gelding will be out with a mare who is not that dominant. No shoes either. Yeah!

    MorganRider

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