hi everybody,

i have had my standardbred since he was 3.  he is now 6.  the first year was mostly groundwork with only walking under saddle.  year 2 more under saddle with walking and trotting and only occassional cantering (he is clumsy and i am out of shape).

with all the groundwork (we work in a roundpen at least 2 or 3 times a week) i have rarely seen him pace and then it's only for a couple strides and he then canters or falls back into a trot.  under saddle, he has paced a few times, but, again i could easily stop and start him again for a trot.

now, in the past month or so, he has picked up pacing again and last ride i couldn't get him to trot.  it was pacing all the way.

the only other thing that's changed is i have a young woman riding him maybe once or twice a month. she only rides in the arena, doing basics: circles, transitions, walk, trot, canter and they went over their first little jump last week. she knows how to ride and grew up in europe show jumping.  (our styles are definitely not the same)

i watched her last week and he was pacing with her too. i don't think it's her riding since a) she doesn't ride very often and b) she looks like she rides fine. although my friend says it only takes one ride to ruin a horse.

what could be the problem and can i fix it?

now pacing is a very smooth gait, so, i don't have a problem with it from that point of view and i have no plans to show him, but, i want him to be a good all round horse so, obviously a trot is needed.

and finally, if i can get him trotting again, is it possible to have access to both a trot and a pace if you have different cues for each? or are you just working to eliminate the pace forever.

Not all standardbreds are natural pacers. Quite often they need special harnesses to encourage or limit them to a pacing gait. Your boy is apparently a brilliant exception. Get on the same page with the woman you have riding him and tell her you want to discourage the pace. If he falls into it, check him up and make it uncomfortable so he drops back into a trot. You should not need to stop him completely and start again. With good hands and leg cues you should be able to keep the pace an option. But you and your other rider will have to be very consistent with corrections and cues or you will wind up with either a trot or the pace, but not both. Give your horse enough time to learn and understand the differences in what you're asking for. ~FH

he seems to be getting better again.  she hasn't been out to ride for a few weeks and i have been riding everyday for the last couple weeks.  we've been blessed with beautiful weather.

now, if i can just get him to quit being a stumblebum.

Gailforce:

now, if i can just get him to quit being a stumblebum.

That's because you want him to trot and he wants to pace.  I agree he's brilliant exception.

Pacing is in the Standardbred gene.  I know a lot of folks that would give their eye teeth for that gait. 

You could always teach him to trot and also enhance his pacing ability.  ASB's can be 5-gaited, there's nothing to say your STB can't be 5-gaited.

I generally agree with Florida Horseman, but not this time.  Humans have spent decades trying to breed the gaiting gene out of Appaloosas, Morgans, and probably other breeds I'm not aware of.  They haven't succeeded.  The gaited Morgan and the Indian Shufflers are thankfully making comebacks.

 If you can train your Standardbred to hold a smooth pace/rack and also trot on cue, you will have a horse that is worth more money, not less.

 You really don't know what you have; IMO your trainer is encouraging the rack because she does know

Take a look at these links:)

http://speedrackinghorses.net/Stroker.htm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lVILYcJn5k  This is also Stroker's Power House.

Walkin... I'm corn-fused. I think we're both on the same page here and you may have mis-interpreted something I said.

 

FloridaHorseman:

... But you and your other rider will have to be very consistent with corrections and cues or you will wind up with either a trot or the pace, but not both...

 I didn't mean to suggest the horse will lose his ability to pace. I meant teaching the cues for him to select the trot over the pace need to be very consistent to avoid confusing him about what the rider is asking for or he'll wind up giving one or the other in a very inconsistent manner. And that would be a critical learning element if he's getting that training from two different riders. And yes. A five gaited horse is definitely money in the bank. I'd hate to see that possibly ruined by two different riders who are not in thorough agreement with each other about how to sustain his talent. ~FH

FloridaHorseman:

Walkin... I'm corn-fused. I think we're both on the same page here and you may have mis-interpreted something I said.

 

FloridaHorseman:

... But you and your other rider will have to be very consistent with corrections and cues or you will wind up with either a trot or the pace, but not both...

 I didn't mean to suggest the horse will lose his ability to pace. I meant teaching the cues for him to select the trot over the pace need to be very consistent to avoid confusing him about what the rider is asking for or he'll wind up giving one or the other in a very inconsistent manner. And that would be a critical learning element if he's getting that training from two different riders. And yes. A five gaited horse is definitely money in the bank. I'd hate to see that possibly ruined by two different riders who are not in thorough agreement with each other about how to sustain his talent. ~FH

Gosh, I see it now.  That's what happens when you have to deal with someone that's left handed and sometimes interprets things in a different perspective - at least that's my excuse 

Thanks

walkinthewalk:

You really don't know what you have; IMO your trainer is encouraging the rack because she does know

she's not my trainer.  she's just a young woman, coworker of a friend, who knows how to ride (grew up in the hunt/jump circuit in europe) and wants to get back into horses.  it actually hasn't worked out well, because she would say she's coming out on certain evenings and then wouldn't show up.  in the meantime, i haven't ridden him that day thinking she would take him out and then when i realize she's not coming it's too late or i'm already doing something else.  so, the upshot is that wanting him to get more excercise actually made him get less excercise.

the last time she was out was the end of september, so, if she calls again i'm just going to tell her it's not working out.  both with the pacing thing and with the lack of regularity i mentioned above.

and she knows nothing of stb's.  she had no idea what he was doing until someone told her.  she just knew it didn't feel like a trot.

i found out about that extra gait via the internet when i first got the boys (i originally had 2 stb's) and was hoping that perhaps i could tap into it.  we'll have to see if i can figure out how to do it on purpose and not just by accident.

i am keeping him barefoot though and i don't want to use special shoes just so i can have an extra gait, so, i guess if he does pace barefoot with no equipment, he is really special....lol.

--it's always nice to be told my big clumsy boy is special.  thanks guys

I also have a STB mare who will pace and trot.  Her gaits are really quite lovely, except when she becomes tense or confused, then she'll do what I have come to call affectionately the 'Flintstone', since that's what it feels like - Fred Flintstones legs spinning a mile a minute underneath me - from the ground realistically it's more like a running walk. 

 Anyway, part of her tension and confusion comes from me NOT wanting her to pace.  I need her to have the 3 very disctinct gaits for Dressage, but also an old Missouri Foxtrotter trainer in our barn was always very cirtical of her horses pacing - said it was "bad" for them.  Usually I would investigate a comment like that myself, but honestly I have not seen any supporting articles or books, etc.

So I am all for developing my horse's talent, but aside from pulling a cart, is there really any place for a Pace? and does anyone know if it really can be "bad" for a horse, physically speaking, to pace. 

 

shinigan:

  I need her to have the 3 very disctinct gaits for Dressage, but also an old Missouri Foxtrotter trainer in our barn was always very cirtical of her horses pacing - said it was "bad" for them.  Usually I would investigate a comment like that myself, but honestly I have not seen any supporting articles or books, etc.

So I am all for developing my horse's talent, but aside from pulling a cart, is there really any place for a Pace? and does anyone know if it really can be "bad" for a horse, physically speaking, to pace. 

A STB that has a natural pace may be the wrong horse for what you want to do. Pacing is not "bad" for the horse. It just uses and therefore develops different muscle groups and habits. Plus, since it's your mare's natural gait it often prefers to go there instead of the trot. You and the mare are already facing the frustration of trying to train it out of her. It can be done. But it may take longer than you expect and leave you with the uncertainty of her performance when it really counts in a Dressage competition.

Funny you meniton the rack!  I did  a little digging after posting here, and it turns out my mare may be very special.  I have to watch her the next time I lunge her but I think she may be one of the rare STB's that has a natural singlefoot!

My modo is that dressage (correct dressage) is good for any horse.  It's not important to me if it takes longer for her to have 'pure' gaits, but that she is healthy and happy.  I told Axl Stiener about her a couple of months after I got her - as an 8 yo pasture pet that had never been broke - he told me to give up and get a youngster.  Well I'm as stubborn as my mare is (a redhead to boot) and I've kept her, and been patient with her. She's a great trail horse and has a great, powerfull trot, and the canter is coming.  I will defenitely follow your link FH, sounds like to be fair to her we will need to start incorporating pace and singlefoot training into our workouts too.  Sounds like fun!

~~Shinigan

Classical Horsemanship is based on love for the horse; it is not for the glorification of the rider...  Then, the equestrian should dedicate himself to the horse's best interests, an attitude that logically leads to a commitment to develop the horse to his full, natural potential.  To do this painlessly, gradually, and naturally is to practice dressage, which then becomes an expression of loving devotion.

---

~ Charles De Kunnfy, Training Strategies for the Dressage Rider

shinigan:

My modo is that dressage (correct dressage) is good for any horse.

 I disagree -- you don't have to train the pace out of the horse, but instead, like FH said, you just have to teach him when it is and is not appropriate to use it.  Heck, my young OTTB when he really starts powerwalking will start to pace when he really has his mind set on his destination (i.e. back to trailer, LOL).  We slow down and go back to a four beat walk as I don't want to encourage a pace since we event.  Although I hardly think he's going to be that excited going across the diagonal in the sandbox, LOL.