Bit Mayhem and Saddling Problems = HELP!

Last post 02-06-2012 4:47 AM by Jayne-Admin. 12 replies.
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  • 01-09-2012 3:30 PM

    Bit Mayhem and Saddling Problems = HELP!

    Almost one year ago I bought my 5 year old Throughbred mare, Rosie. It was all fine until recently, she has started swinging her head around and attempting to bite, kick, and be a general B*tch. 
    I use a half pad on her, and she has quite strange muscling where the knee rolls are. i have a used Pessoa Gen X that I have personally fit tested multiple times on her. I can ride without a pad, or with my thin anti-sweat sheet no problem. But when i use my Roma pad and half pad, she's pissed.
     
    In the time I've had her we've gone through a jointed eggbutt, to a full cheek, to a rubber full cheek, to a pelham, back to the full cheek, to the eggbutt, to a rubber gag that I don't use the rope cheek pieces with. She'll behave, then after a month on the dot, be an ass. Please Help?

    I don't know why and it breaks my heart when she tries this. Can you please help me figure out why she's suddenly being such a witch?
    -Judgement + Rosie
  • 01-09-2012 4:56 PM In reply to

    Re: Bit Mayhem and Saddling Problems = HELP!

    If this has just started, it sounds like she has some back pain, maybe sacrum-related. Pain in the sacrum can also be evidenced in the poll, which might account for the bit issue and the head tossing. Back pain could account for the kicking and biting. When you put a thick set of pads on her she might be reacting to that, especially if you tighten the girth to the same hole you used with no pad or a thin pad.

    The first thing you should check for when a horse's behavior changes dramatically is pain. A call to your vet sounds as though it is warranted. He/she can look at her teeth, the "odd" muscling on her shoulder, give her a flexion test, even give your saddle a professional evaluation.

    Get on the phone to your vet. Good luck.
    Megan


    "The horse you get off is not the horse you got on. It is your job as a rider to ensure that as often as possible, the change is for the better."

    Anonymous




  • 01-09-2012 5:22 PM In reply to

    Re: Bit Mayhem and Saddling Problems = HELP!

    There are multiple possiblities, but I agree that a check with your vet may well be warranted -- you can spend a lot of time and energy and money guessing or you can bypass all that and get a professional to help.

    If I understood right, you can ride her in the saddle with no pad and she is fine?  But then you add a half pad and she is not?  Then it is possible the half pad/other pad is adding too much bulk and making the saddle pinch.  Many horses are very sensitive about their withers.

    As for the bits, when I see a horse cycling through a lot of bits but going back to the same behaviours, I look to the rider's hands.  The truth is, most problems are caused by us (ohhh, it is painful to admit that one, but true!) so I would ask, "How am I riding?"  Make a video or get a ground person (trainer or knowledgeable friend) to watch you and determine what you may be doing to contribute to behaviours.

    When we have had our horses for a while, we tend to fall into patterns of riding and behaviour within the relationship with the horse.  It takes an outside eye to break those patterns and keep us moving in the right direction.



    Solaris -- 16 hh Appendix Quarter Horse = MY DREAM COME TRUE!
    We Are Flying Solo
  • 01-09-2012 9:25 PM In reply to

    Re: Bit Mayhem and Saddling Problems = HELP!

    Wow! Thanks for replying so quickly!

    I'll have my vet look at her! My mother actually has ridden for years and she coaches me almost Daily. She rode fine until that half pad:) I'll ride without it when I can and will be switching back to the full cheek if she's all better in a week:)

    I never thought that me trying to help her would do the opposite! I put the half pad on for support, guess she didn't need it!

    The muscling is 'strange' because it is everywhere except the half pad area:) 
    Thank You So Much in Advance!,
    S+ Rosie
    -Judgement + Rosie
  • 01-10-2012 4:51 AM In reply to

    Re: Bit Mayhem and Saddling Problems = HELP!

    It might be that the saddle fits her just right and adding that extra half pad makes it too tight for her.  I know that Boy does not like the pad to sit on his withers, I need to make sure I pull it up in the gullet of the saddle.  The strange muscling you're talking about is most likely not from the saddle but from her compensating for some other physical issue.

    Has she seen a dentist?  If she's got hooks or ramps, it could be that she can't flex at the poll that could give her a headache and also make her sore in her upper thorasics.  I would also have her seen by a massage therapist and a chiro (on the same day, preferrably right after the massage) they hold their adjustments so much better after a good massage.  The mt/chiro can tell you where your horse is sore and a possible cause.

    I would also look at her feet.  Is she barefoot or in shoes?  Many times when we think our horses are getting a nice balanced trim before a reset they aren't.  What happens to you when your feet hurt because you're wearing shoes that are too small, too narrow, or that make you walk funny?  It makes you're whole body hurt, especially your back.  When they are out of balance the horse has to do things with their body to compensate and this makes them sore.  Sometimes all it takes is a discussion with your farrier and sometimes it takes getting a new one.  Feet are so important, but get over looked all the time.

    I also agree with Solo on the bit cycling.  Look at yourself and make sure you're not using your hands for balance and riding off of her mouth.  SO MANY people have this problem and don't know it.  I rode for years and had no idea what correct was until I found my wonderful trainer (who sadly moved south!).  Thoroughbreds are typically very sensitive horses and will let you know when they don't like something.  She's a mare also...so double that.  Listen to her and she will make you a better rider.

    Ulcers also come to mind with what you're describing.  What's her diet (be very specific please) and her turnout routine?

    Is there anyway you can get us some video of you riding and some pictures of her feet? 

     

    A good rider rides transition to transition, a great rider rides half-halt to half-halt!

    ~Robert Dover
  • 01-10-2012 9:54 AM In reply to

    Re: Bit Mayhem and Saddling Problems = HELP!

    I can't figure out how to put a picture on here! She's Barefoot with trims every 6-8 weeks, and She eats 3/4 lbs of Legends Show and Pleasure Textured and 1/4 lb of Triple Crown Senior(she won't gain weight!). She's turned out for at least 4 hours, up to twelve in the summer. She lives with a gelding and a pony who bullies her off the hay(the pony is a little brat: she stays penned up most of the time). Her workout routine consists of 2-3 days of jumping/poles/gridwork/cross-country. The rest of it is dressage, with bending, flexion, extension, collection, and tons of circles and transitions.(if you want to count stirrupless, that, too.)

    I'll get pictures as soon as i figure out how to:)
    -Judgement + Rosie
  • 01-10-2012 10:00 AM In reply to

    Re: Bit Mayhem and Saddling Problems = HELP!

    Go to the list of forum topics--General, Horse Car, English, et al--and at the very bottom you'll see FAQ. On that forum you'll read how to do many of the things you want to do on posts. I'm pretty sure it tells you how to post pictures and links.
    Megan


    "The horse you get off is not the horse you got on. It is your job as a rider to ensure that as often as possible, the change is for the better."

    Anonymous




  • 01-10-2012 10:56 AM In reply to

    Re: Bit Mayhem and Saddling Problems = HELP!

    You might try putting shoes on her first.  If her feet are sore, this will have a huge impact on the rest of her body.  I don't know very may TB's that can go barefoot and be in full work (insert my TB here).  I actually do know one, but she's definately in the minority.  You can try just front shoes first, but most likely she will be happier shod all the way around.  She might not look lame or ouchy, but her feet could sting when they hit the ground.  Have the farrier check her with the hoof testers next time he/she is out to make sure she isn't sore but, I would put shoes on her no matter what the farrier says.   

    Her feed, is that 1lb total per feeding or per day?  Either way from what you're telling me she's getting in the feed department doesn't sound like being close to enough for what she needs to gain weight, especially for the workload you say she's on.  My TB gelding gets 6 lbs (a 3qt scoop of TC Senior = 3lbs) of Triple Crown Senior a day along with 1lb of Buckeye Ultimate Finish and Omega Horseshine and he's not doing anything right now.  If you're new to feeding a TB sometimes it's hard to wrap your head around how much they need to eat just to stay in good weight.  They burn calories just standing around.  Triple Crown Senior is a wonderful feed and you can feed that to her even though she's not a senior.  It's high fat, low starch, low sugar and easy to digest.  It will put weight on her without making her crazy.  The legends is probably not doing much for her, so I wouldn't even feed it to her.  I would steadily increase the TC Senior till you see her start to gain and keep her there until you get her where she should be, then you can back off a little.  As far as they hay goes...can you spread enough piles around so that if she gets chased off of one, there's always an extra pile for her?  Like if you have three horses, put out 4 or 5 piles so she always has one to go to.  It's so important that they get as much hay as they will eat and they have something infront of them all the time.  Their digestive system does not work properly without the fiber and they need it to keep warm. 

    Looking forward to pictures of your girl!   

    A good rider rides transition to transition, a great rider rides half-halt to half-halt!

    ~Robert Dover
  • 01-11-2012 12:21 PM In reply to

    Re: Bit Mayhem and Saddling Problems = HELP!

    I have had many TB's over the years and struggled with keeping weight on them as well as bitting and saddling issues so I totally sympathize with you. I also agree with the other commenters in that these issues often arise because TB's are so sensitive. We started feeding one our TB's (and any horse who need to gain weight) feed with Lysine in it. (Lysine helps them gain weight in the right way 1. skeletal tissue 2. muscle and then 3. fat thus helping horses gain good weight like a top line and muscles without getting a hay belly or 'high'). Many feeds/ supplements have lysine in them you just have to do a little research. One way is to feed a cup of soybean meal. Also a rice bran is great because it helps them gain weight without making them 'high' we have used both a supplement with lysine and ricebran on our TB's and it really helped our TB's put on weight.

    I have also been a big believer in finding a saddle that fits a horse, this can be kind of tricky because you'll need to find a saddle fitter who has experience in you area that can come out and look at your horse and in the end you may have to buy a new saddle. I have had several Amerigo saddles that worked great for me and my jumpers. One main thing I remember being told by a saddle fitter is that you should be able to fit 3-4 fingers down the tree of your saddle otherwise it may be too narrow (with a TB it may be different because they aren't usually as big as a warmblood). And also don't put your saddle too far forward (believe me I always have a tendancy to do this) as this can restrict or create pressure points on a horses shoulders.My saddle fitter said put saddle on the horses back (without a pad) start way far forward and let it slip/slide back to a natural resting point. That is approx where you should be putting your saddle (then when you put your pads on try to get back to or near that natural point). Again every horse/saddle is different depending on type.

    As for bitting in my experience you just have to try different things. I saw a great video on EquestrianCoach.com all about bitting where they talk about different bits, common misconceptions and different approaches (for example one really strong horse actually lightened up and was happier with less bit not more- a real shock to the rider) that you may find really helpful and insightful. I did! Good luck! 

  • 01-29-2012 10:00 AM In reply to

    Re: Bit Mayhem and Saddling Problems = HELP!

    You stated she goes 28 days and wham she has another hissy.   Vet check, she may have cyctic ovary.   If she is having pain she'll display as resistance and irritability.   I had a great AQHA mare who had them, she was a world class B**$h.   We treated her, and I leased her to a student and while at her barn turned out with "geldings" ended up getting bred.   She came home bred, and after foaling she seemed to have more normal cycles for the rest of her life.   she was still a very bossy mare, and did have noticable cycles, but regumate when she was competing relieved all her symtoms and attitude.

    Saddle fit - if she has great differences in musculature where the pads are, then you are causing too much padding and pinching the back, withers, etc.  Its like wearing your favorite shoes, one pair of socks is all you need... put on 2 or 3 and your feet will ache, and after you take off the shoes (having walked several miles or gone dancing)  your feet will swell and be miserable for days.   Thats what over padding can do to your horse's back.   Over padding with half pads, takes away the purpose of a raised gullet, the spine area gets friction and pressure, where as with a single pad, the saddle over the spine is raised, and the air flow helps.  2 pads, and your 2nd pad basically becomes a bridge over the spine from one panel to the other, and your horse has no relief over his spine.

     

  • 01-29-2012 7:33 PM In reply to

    Re: Bit Mayhem and Saddling Problems = HELP!

    Thank You all for the help!!

    Turns out it was the half pad AND bit.


    Solution: The muscling was everywhere but where the pad was, causing the problem. She went a week without riding and lost the muscle, and by the time I got on again, I had removed the pad, and changed her bit. 

    She is now in a D Ring snaffle with a copper losenge in the middle. I switched to this because my mom(yes my mom) suggested it- when she rode for a pro hunter rider he started horses in a gag(the one i talked about) and then switched them to this or vice versa. She rides so well and I'm no longer always thinking about stopping.




    Thank you sooo Much for helping me!!
    I'm sooooooo Grateful!
    -Judgement + Rosie
  • 02-03-2012 9:40 AM In reply to

    Re: Bit Mayhem and Saddling Problems = HELP!

    Yes 



    Solaris -- 16 hh Appendix Quarter Horse = MY DREAM COME TRUE!
    We Are Flying Solo
  • 02-06-2012 4:47 AM In reply to

    Re: Bit Mayhem and Saddling Problems = HELP!

     Yay - I'm glad you got the answers you needed here and got to the root of the problem.


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