General Discussion

Re: FRAUD!! how to prove?

653439 — Thu, 01 Nov 2007 04:30:34 GMT

Have to agree on this one - too many horses being bred for no real purpose. I wonder at some point if breed registries will demand DNA testing. Morgan Assoc. did because of some dishonest crossbreeding.

Re: FRAUD!! how to prove?

Scout's Mom — Thu, 01 Nov 2007 00:02:52 GMT

Mandalark:

No update yet unfortunately, Im waiting for heather to get back to me on what went on.. Tonya has way to many horses, breeds wayy too much has way too many studs and shouldn't won over half of what she has. and shouldn't breed half of what she has.. too many horses without home out there for her to be making her mares kick out babies like pinata's! man...

Tonya's part of the slaughter problem! Sorry to hijack, I had to get that off my chest.

Re: FRAUD!! how to prove?

robison02 — Tue, 30 Oct 2007 17:55:00 GMT

A) I'm pretty sure APHA requires DNA typing now on all foal, including solids.

B) There are deadlines for filing Stallion Breeding Reports, and that is before the foal is born. Getting papers on a foal when the mare isn't listed on the original Stallion Breeding Report is next thing to impossible (at the very least, it requires a LOT of work and money).

This will probably catch up to her at some point and get her suspended. Even if this particular event doesn't do it, I would bet money that some other fraudulent activity will surface. I don't know that APHA will do anything on an anonymous phone call, but it certainly doesn't hurt to try.

Re: FRAUD!! how to prove?

Mandalark — Tue, 30 Oct 2007 09:50:52 GMT

No update yet unfortunately, Im waiting for heather to get back to me on what went on.. Tonya has way to many horses, breeds wayy too much has way too many studs and shouldn't won over half of what she has. and shouldn't breed half of what she has.. too many horses without home out there for her to be making her mares kick out babies like pinata's! man...

Re: FRAUD!! how to prove?

Meg — Tue, 30 Oct 2007 06:22:15 GMT

Thats horrible did you get an update on the situation??

Re: FRAUD!! how to prove?

coyotecreek — Mon, 29 Oct 2007 18:20:30 GMT

Your friend needs to contact APHA and let them know whats going on.

Im curious, did she submit a breeding report when the mare was bred? or did she decide to do this after the filly was born? She could have alot of red tape to go through if she did not submit a breeding report.

Re: FRAUD!! how to prove?

Stacey-mod — Mon, 29 Oct 2007 17:52:35 GMT

That just stinks for everyone else who is honest. I believe APHA DNA tests all foals before they can be registered, so this person isn't going to get very far, I hope. Unfortunately, without some sort of proof, you don't have much to go on, and that's quite a serious allegation without some sort of proof other than hearsay.

Re: FRAUD!! how to prove?

smw.horses — Fri, 26 Oct 2007 02:55:54 GMT

I don't have an answer or even an suggestion for you.... :(

All i can do is tell you about the breeder I knew 25+ years ago. He had some well bred mares and would breed about 5 to 6 of them every year to his Paint stallion. He also had the papers to a well bred AQHA. When the foals hit the ground if they were spotted they were papered with the Paint, if not then with the AQHA. Seemed he sent breeding reports to both Paint and AQHA.

I was just in high scool at the time and was a bit shocked over this.

Re: FRAUD!! how to prove?

QHAllAround — Thu, 25 Oct 2007 21:36:21 GMT

I think about all you can do is call APHA and give them a heads up with what you know. They may flag the papers/individuals and require DNA testing, which will catch them. They may do nothing, but at least you will have done what you could.

Re: FRAUD!! how to prove?

Scout's Mom — Thu, 25 Oct 2007 20:53:41 GMT

If somehow the death of the BS mare was reported to APHA, they would catch it without having to be told. Tonya may be too smart for that, though. I would let APHA know, anonymously of course.

Re: FRAUD!! how to prove?

journeygirl — Thu, 25 Oct 2007 20:05:34 GMT

The only thing I can think of is if APHA had DNA on file for the mare the papers belong to then they can DNA the baby and they will find they don't match.

But, A year ago when I registered a Paint baby you didn't have to DNA them all. Only horses you planned to race or breed.

I'd probably call APHA and tell them what you know and let them sort it out.

FRAUD!! how to prove?

Mandalark — Thu, 25 Oct 2007 19:55:31 GMT

So, when I say "a friend of a friend" This is true, I would never do this so Im not trying to cover for something I did trust me!!! So, for the sake of the people, he have Heather, and Tonya.

So. Heather had a mare, this mare is a big beautiful Morgan x QH. Heather sells the mare to her friend Tonya.

Tonya breeds the mare to her paint stallion, gets a beautiful bay and while filly, absolutely beautiful, built like a tank, sweet disposition. but- heather never had any papers for mommy. Tonya decides that she has some old papers of a mare she had that died, that looks just like the mommy, but they are BSpaint papers. Mom is a morgan and quarter horse, not a breeding stock paint, and obviously this is fraud.

Seeing as only Heather knows this, is there a way to turn Tonya into the APHA for fraud??

Thanks all, I am trying to help heather and she is very confused on what to do...