General Discussion

Re: Meredith Manor

874019 — Thu, 14 May 2009 16:23:44 GMT

I want to encourage you in assiting your daughters career path and college choices. As an "employer" I have done hiring in several fields. It is very important to me that anyone representing my organizations be able to converse and write clearly. That good grad in English is a marker for that ability. Also the mental discipline and work ethic one acquires while pusuing excellence shows up in grands and will eventually show up in the work place. I expect that level of ethics and deication from staff and so often if people learn to be slackers and just barely get by in school they are unable to suddenly perform in the real world. Please feel free to show this to your daughter. Who know I might be interveiwing her for her dream job someday.

Re: Meredith Manor

dgraysmith — Sat, 09 May 2009 14:25:46 GMT

Thank you so much for your replies! It has helped open up some discussion between my daughter and me. She and I still like MM as an option for her and plan to visit this summer to help make a choice. I think (and pray!) she is beginning to understand the need to work hard in all aspects of her life, not just horses. Again, I appreciate all your help.

Re: Meredith Manor

dirkbosgraf — Fri, 08 May 2009 15:25:30 GMT

Hi dgraysmith,

dgraysmith:
can you speak to the "real world" possibilites of employment?

MM is a nationally accredited vocational school and in order to maintain that accreditation we are required to closely monitor our completion and job placement rates. We currently have an 80% completion rate (the national average for 4-year colleges is ~50%) and over a 90% job placement rate in the horse industry. Additionally our job placement rate increased from the 2007-2008 school year to the 2008-2009 school year, so I absolutely feel our graduates are very employable in the industry and very capable of having successful careers in the industry. But don't just take my word for it, talk to past graduates. On our website we have a page that lists all of our graduates for the past several years and the jobs they went into right out of school (http://meredithmanor.edu/graduate/horse_jobs.asp), and we also have a page with links to websites of businesses where many of our graduates are currently working (http://meredithmanor.edu/graduate/grad_links.asp).

Regarding paying back student loans, for the past few years our graduates default rate on student loans has ranged from 0.0% to 7.8%, so the vast majority have been able to repay their loans and the percentages are very similar to the national average for all schools.

dgraysmith:
She isn't focusing on her grades in high school, since "MM doesn't look at that" and spends all available time at the barn.

Because MM doesn't have academic classes, we currently don't take high school GPA into account in our admissions process. However, we do stress that success in high school is often an important factor in a person's success in a career in the horse industry. It helps the student begin to develop a good work ethic and it provides the student with many skills that can be valuable when dealing with employers, clients, etc. Additionally, I'm not sure when your daughter is considering attending MM, but due to increased application numbers we are considering revamping our application selection process down the road. If we do change the selection process, it is very likely that high school GPA and attendance will be factored into that process.

BayHorseGirl:
The employers where only interested in potential employees with an associate or bachelor's degree from an accredited university.

If you are interested in the degree track, Meredith Manor does have an affiliation with WVU-P to offer our students Associates and Bachelors Degrees in Equestrian Studies. However, I think you will find employers requiring a degree in the horse industry the exception rather than the rule. The majority of employers are much more interested in the candidates skill level and experience, which is why MM focuses so much on the hands-on time - you can't gain these types of physical skills and experience in the classroom.

MM students will often have up to 4 hours a day, 4 days a week of instructed time in the saddle in their riding, training, and teaching classes. Over the course of the Riding Master VI program, this adds up to well over 1000 hours over 18 months. In many of the college programs with Equine Studies majors including Delaware Valley, the students have just 2 hours of riding classes per week which adds up to around 250 hours over 4 years.

BayHorseGirl:
In 2007 I graduated from Delaware Valley College with a degree in Equine Studies.

A comparison of some MM and Delaware Valley numbers:

Full Program Tuition with Room and Board: MM $52,000; DelVal $160,000
Program Length: MM - 18 months; DelVal - 4 years
Total semester credit hours: MM - 168; DelVal - 132
Equestrian related credit hours: MM - 168; DelVal - 54
Instructed time in the saddle: MM - 1000+ hours; DelVal - ~250 hours
Completion Rate: MM - 80%; DelVal - 50% (35% in 4 years - something to keep in mind here is that in Degree programs if you take longer to complete the program you are charged additional tuition. MM allows student to extend the time required to complete their program at no additional cost beyond room and board.)
Job Placement Rate: MM - 90%; DelVal - ?
Program Type: MM - certification; DelVal - degree
Riding Disciplines Offered: MM - Dressage, Jumping, Western; DelVal - Dressage, Jumping

However, I'm not trying to say 4-year degree programs are bad, many of them offer great educational opportunities, they are just offering a different service. The express purpose of a vocational school is to provide students with the skills necessary to have a successful career in a specific vocation. The purpose of a liberal arts college is to provide general knowledge and develop intellectual capacities. Neither type of school is better or worse than the other, they just provide different services. It depends on the students educational and career goals to determine which type of school would be the best fit and if they have the necessary time and money - doing both types of schools is often a great option.

In the end though, you really need to visit the schools and talk to students, staff, and graduates to get a better understanding of the programs they offer. MM offers tours during the week year round. During their visit, prospective students will have the opportunity to see the campus, sit in on classes, and talk with staff and students. To schedule a tour you can go to http://meredithmanor.edu/about/tour.asp

Feel free to ask any other questions you may have.

Re: Meredith Manor

BayHorseGirl — Tue, 05 May 2009 23:39:38 GMT

When I was a senior in high school, eager to graduate and determined to do something with horses, I entertained the idea of going to Meredith Manor as well. Thank goodness my parents where knowledgeable folk and discouraged me from attending any type of institution that would not hand me a Bachelor's Degree on my way out.

In 2007 I graduated from Delaware Valley College with a degree in Equine Studies (FYI at most colleges your actual diploma will say a Bachelor's Degree in Animal Science, which is very cool). Along with the boring, but necessary, classes that involved actual work (math, english, science, yadda yadda) I took stable management, equine anatomy & physiology, equine nutrition, and a myriad of other courses that helped me achieve the all around horse knowledge that I possess today. It also got me my current dream job: managing a private barn for really rich people. When I was interviewing for the position - and others - I competed against a few Meredith Manor graduates. The employers where only interested in potential employees with an associate or bachelor's degree from an accredited university.

I would highly recommend DVC for anyone seriously interested in pursuing a degree in Equine Studies. Not only is it a beautiful campus, but it has a jaw dropping equine facility right there and instructors to die for. The director of the program is an international show jumper from Italy. If you would like more information, feel free to contact me.

Good luck!!

Re: Meredith Manor

legacysporthorses — Tue, 05 May 2009 17:34:08 GMT

dgraysmith,

I was in your daughter's shoes once (except for the grades). You might try getting her the book "In Service to the Horse" by Susan Nusser. It follows equine grads through their season as world-class grooms. There is a lot of truth to the book and the grooms face some tough challenges.

I had a great family that encouraged me to spend my summers exploring horse industry jobs. I interned with a vet and learned that I couldn't handle the blood. I spent another summer during college with a local trainer, and learned that you need a big pocketbook to succeed. He lived off of hot dogs and sandwiches every day because he could barely afford to buy food. I majored in horses despite this and am currently getting my MBA so that I can teach at the college level. Show your daughter that there are other options besides training by encouraging her to spend her summers interning with different professionals. I would also recommend having her research how much she is going to need for college and then put her in touch with a loan officer from Sallie Mae who can tell her how much she would have to pay monthly for her student loans.

If she wants to be a horse trainer, you also might want to have her design her own facility and find out how much it would cost to build vs. buy. Once she has done that, take her to a bank that you trust and have them evaluate her for a loan and talk to her about loans. I did this my freshman year of college and got quite a rude awakening.

The best thing you can do for her is encourage her to pursue her dreams but explain that you want her to know the facts so that she can make good decisions that will help her dreams come true. As for the grades, try explaining to her that it may be easy to get into MM but once she's there it's going to be difficult to stay if she doesn't keep her grades up. College is harder than high school and if you slack off in high school you won't have the skills necessary to maintain the GPA needed to remain in college. Unlike high school they can kick you out. Good luck!

Re: Meredith Manor

dgraysmith — Thu, 30 Apr 2009 19:17:48 GMT

My daughter is convinced MM is the place for her and she will be able to support herself working in the horse world. She isn't focusing on her grades in high school, since "MM doesn't look at that" and spends all available time at the barn. While I am cautiously supportive of her dream and her desire to attend MM, I am very concerned that she will not have the means to support herself with a degree from there and pay back student loans we must get if she attends. Additonally, I am concerned about her lack of interest in her studies and that is causing WWIII at home when I ground her from going to the barn.

I am certainly in no position to "set her up" financially as mentioned in previous posts, and I worry she is getting set up for failure. Since you are affiliated with the school, can you speak to the "real world" possibilites of employment? I might add, she has no problem with hard work and getting dirty. She already works part time as a stable hand. Any information would be appreciated to help me make a decision.

Thanks!

Re: Meredith Manor

dirkbosgraf — Mon, 08 Sep 2008 18:59:49 GMT

MaegXDX:

Regarding :

The total cost for Meredith Manor's 2-year Riding Master program (224 quarter hours equaling 168 semester hours) including room and board and horse board would be $49,698.

When you say the total cost for the 2- year riding program are you reffering to taking both 36 week courses to complete up to riding master 5? I am interested in taking the 72 week course for Riding Masters 3 after i graduate- would you be able to give me the approx cost if I lived on campus?

sorry for asking a question on another persons thread- I am just unsure how to personally contact dirkbosgraf.

Hi MaegXDX,

The cost I was refering to was for a Riding Master 6 program completed over 6 quarters. The break down of costs for this program would be:
Riding Master 6 tuition: $41,520
Room & Board for 6 quarters: $913/quarter * 6 quarters = $5,478
Program Horse Board for 6 quarters: $450/quarter * 6 quarters = $2,700

You are asking about the 72-Week Comprehensive Riding Master III which is a Riding Master 3 program completed over 6 quarters. This is what we refer to as our half-time program. Because both programs are completed over 6 quarters, the break down of costs would be the same as above except the tution would be cut in half. So if you lived on campus and brought your horse the total costs would be:
Riding Master 3 tuition: $20,760
Room & Board for 6 quarters: $913/quarter * 6 quarters = $5,478
Program Horse Board for 6 quarters: $450/quarter * 6 quarters = $2,700
For a total of $28,938.

Feel free to let me know if you have any other questions.

Dirk

Re: Meredith Manor

MaegXDX — Sun, 07 Sep 2008 22:32:39 GMT

Regarding :

The total cost for Meredith Manor's 2-year Riding Master program (224 quarter hours equaling 168 semester hours) including room and board and horse board would be $49,698.

When you say the total cost for the 2- year riding program are you reffering to taking both 36 week courses to complete up to riding master 5? I am interested in taking the 72 week course for Riding Masters 3 after i graduate- would you be able to give me the approx cost if I lived on campus?

sorry for asking a question on another persons thread- I am just unsure how to personally contact dirkbosgraf.

Re: Meredith Manor

dirkbosgraf — Wed, 07 May 2008 04:20:26 GMT

Let me start by saying that I'm an employee of Meredith Manor and give you a very brief description of the school. We are an equestrian career college dedicated entirely to preparing students for skill based, hands-on equine careers (professional riders, trainers, riding instructors, equine-massage therapists, farriers, etc.). We feel very strongly that a hands-on education is vital for skill based careers. I would just like to address a couple points in the previous post:

>> The facilities aren't as good as many of the other schools that I went to look at

If you said "aren't as attractive" I wouldn't disagree. We are a working facility not a show facility, and appearance doesn't rank very high on our priority list. That being said, I would claim that functionally our facility is one of the best (the function being to provide a quality, hands-on learning environment). We have six indoor arenas and seven barns housing a total of 150 horses. We have a maximum of 75 riding students, so that's twice as many horses as students and one indoor arena for every 12.5 students.

In our program students have 2 one-hour riding classes per day and the average riding class size is 5. So doing the math, 75 students * 2 riding classes = 150 rides per day. 150 rides per day / 5 riders per class = 30 riding classes per day. In addition to the riding classes, our students have four hours per day of hands on career area electives including training classes, teaching classes, massage therapy classes, etc. so having one or two fancy arenas and 40 or 50 horses clearly wouldn’t work.

>> it is very expensive

We've established that having a very hands-on program requires a large facility and keeping the student/teacher ratio low requires a large teaching staff - Meredith Manor maintains a staff of ten instructors, so tuition can’t be as cheap as a situation where you have a professor lecturing to hundreds of students. However, in order to give the student the most value for their tuition money we focus that money more on education (faculty and a functional facility) and less on appearance. If you compare our prices to most Equine Studies programs you'll find that we are significantly less expensive.

Because sauerhorse08 mentioned Lake Erie, I pulled the tuition prices from their website. The total cost for their 4-year equine program (128 semester hours) including room and board and horse board would be $157,320. The total cost for Meredith Manor's 2-year Riding Master program (224 quarter hours equaling 168 semester hours) including room and board and horse board would be $49,698. So while it is certainly a major investment, when comparing our costs to other equine studies programs we are frequently a half or even a quarter of the cost.

>> Also, it only teaches horses. I opted to go to a regular university to study because I am able to take classes like business and stuff so I can have some education and background to fall back on

Meredith Manor students have the option of pursuing an Associates Degree with an equine emphasis through West Virginia University at Parkersburg. In this program students complete the 1-year Riding Master program at Meredith Manor and complete 21 hours of general education courses at WVU-P.

I apologize for the lengthy post, but I wanted to clear up some common misconceptions about MM. Feel free to let me know if you have any questions about our school.

Re: Meredith Manor

sauerhorse08 — Tue, 06 May 2008 19:49:49 GMT

I am going to college to study horses too, but I'm going to Lake Erie College in Ohio. I went and looked at Meredith Manor because, like you, I thought that it was perfect for me. But after visiting it, I was disappointed. The facilities aren't as good as many of the other schools that I went to look at and it is very expensive. Also, it only teaches horses. And that might sound like a wonderful thing, but, like everyone else is saying, it might not be. I opted to go to a regular university to study because I am able to take classes like business and stuff so I can have some education and background to fall back on when my horse career isn't soaring, but horses will still be my foremost career.

Re: Meredith Manor

citabobita — Wed, 30 Apr 2008 21:06:18 GMT

I couldn't agree with Solaris more. Unless you have a family that is going to set you up financially in business with a farm, it is very difficult to make a living from an equine degree.

We have recent college graduates working at our barn often. They're making just about as much as they would at a grocery store. Not saying that they don't enjoy what they do, but you certainly don't need a 4 year college degree to make minimum wage and muck stalls. Unless you have a ton of experience nobody in their right mind is going to hand over their valuable horses for you to ride and train until you have more experience in the "real world."

If you do want to do something equine-related, I would MINOR in equine studies, or double major if possible. If you want to go into something science-related (like a vet-tech or equine specialist) try a biology degree. If you're looking to teach, consider education. If you're looking to work for a magazine or publisher, try journalism or communications. If you want to work at an equine product manufacturer, try marketing. Or, if you want to run a barn or farm, consider agricultural or business management.

There are equine-related jobs out there, but chances are, you DON'T need an equine degree to work at them. I would focus on something more broad and combine that with the equine major or minor.

Re: Meredith Manor

ilmjumper — Tue, 04 Mar 2008 03:10:57 GMT

I started off my college career wanting to do the horse degree (even got into St Andrews, which is THE private equestrian college down here) until I got an awesome piece of advice from a well know trainer here...she told me that an Equestrian degree is only ever considered a plus if you have the years and years of experience...and that it honestly didn't factor too much into you getting or not getting a horse job. In fact, a lot of trainers I know are more reluctent to hire someone with the big degree b/c they've found that these people don't think they have to work their way up just like anyone else. I honestly think it's smart to get a "real" degree in something else (like business) and then maybe get an associates degree or one of the many cert. in Equine Studies

Re: Meredith Manor

Nicole — Mon, 03 Mar 2008 15:01:12 GMT

I agree with Solaris.... I, too, wanted to devote my life to horses, and I still do! But I realized how incredibly difficult it is to make a good living in the horse business and chose to study accounting instead. My intention is that I will gain enough business experience and make enough money that I can hopefully start up my own business someday, preferably in the horse business. The transition will be the hardest part, but with the kind of money I will be making, I should be able to pretty easily buy my own property and the equipment I need.

Unless you are already well-known in the horse world or have a large amount of money to cushion yourself with, I would highly suggest looking into a business degree. While it may take longer, you can learn most of what you learn in a equine degree from knowledgeable trainers and instructors.

Better yet, I would recommend doing a working student position with a top trainer for a summer or two. You'll learn more about your intended discipline and also make the connections necessary to get your name out there.

Re: Meredith Manor

whoaRusty — Mon, 03 Mar 2008 14:42:05 GMT

Hi,

I, too, went to MM in the mid 1990's. I did the 3 year program. The experience is priceless (the knowledge, the hands on, the ability to ride anything ...), but unfortunately for me the school loans will be lingering with me for a long time.

Sadly I must admit, I don't work with horses full-time, but I still trim my own horses and I am confident I can ride any horse given to me.

I agree with Spotted Pony ... the facility is about learning and working with the horses ... a working farm.

I also, wholely agree with Solaris. Evaluate your goals very closely. There are people who complete MM's program and do very well. But there are others who don't.

One of the issues I have is that while MM prepared me to ride any type of horse, the transition to work for other trainers was difficult. Unless you have all the $$ you need, you'll probably need to spend some time with a trainer to learn the game (dressage, jumping, reining, cutting). I spent 1-1/2 months with a trainer in OK after being with MM and couldn't continue. MM prepares you how to ride without all the gimmicky things "old school" trainers do. It didn't feel right to continue. If you can play the game of doing what a trainer tells you then you'll do well.

As for me, I now work as a Computer Tech, but long for the days of being my own trainer.

Hope this helps,

Scott

Re: Meredith Manor

Solaris — Sat, 01 Mar 2008 23:53:19 GMT

I just want to throw this out there as a heads-up and a bit of a reality check. I know, before college, it seems like a really neat thing to just study horses and spend one's whole life devoted to them (I'm passionate about them too, believe me!). But unless you have a trust fund or marry into serious money or have another phenomenal job that will fund your horsey habit, it is VERY VERY tough and competitive to make a living off of horses (some would argue impossible, but it all depends on your perspective) as the market for horse-crazy girls who've spend their whole lives studying them is more than saturated (sorry if I'm assuming you're a girl and you're not, no offense meant). I would advise that instead of focusing your studies just on horses, to instead take a major in business and study horses secondarily to that. This keeps your options open so that if you aren't able to "make it" in the horse world starting out, you have something lucrative in your hand (a business degree which will definitely give you major advantages when you do decide to go into the horse business) that you can use to get you to where you can afford to try and make a go of it on horses alone.