Horse Care

Re: Boots instead of shoes?

Frizzle — Sat, 14 May 2011 12:17:58 GMT

Gailforce,

Yes, it's a bit difficult to tell from the pics, but I have to say that they look much better than I expected! On the last pic, I see some flare that needs to come off. And it would really help if you filed them every now and then to keep the shape. Better pics would be great if you can get them., but overall they don't look too bad.

Does your horse get a lot of turn-out? More movement=more hoof growth, so I wonder if that's a factor (?). I would also look at his diet. Although I guess it's probably nice only having to pay for a few trims a year! I walk Salem over concrete quite a bit, but his hooves don't wear down ( I wonder if that's because he has a mustang roll -- ??).

Now, if we could get MIssyclare to chime in, we would be set -- she's much more of a "hoof guru" than I!

Re: Boots instead of shoes?

Katie — Sat, 14 May 2011 10:43:42 GMT

Okay, Okay...

Here goes nothing.

Yes, all horses can go barefoot. Yes, some climates are easier than others. Yes, sometimes it just takes time to adjust.

HOWEVER sometimes it is better to take the route that some here have chosen and just stick with shoes. Those cases where the horse is so uncomfortable that it would mean laying them up for more than a year and the use of boots at all times until the horse is more tolerant of being barefoot make barefoot impractical. Wet conditions are very difficult to maintain hooves in.

For the question of what kind of trimmer to use. Drumroll please... A farrier who actually balances the foot correctly does so in a trim or shoeing. Unfortunately, it is easy for someone to put out a shingle saying they are a farrier and have no clue about what they are doing. I use a regular farrier to do my horses' feet who are barefoot and have 0 problems because he is knowledgeable and capable. I have had barefoot trimmers who never took the time to actually learn about their trade who have crippled horses. It goes both ways - the key is if it's working, it's working, if it's not, it's not.

As far as length of time between trims - I have several horses that are NEVER trimmed (going on 5 years for the one) - they live out in a pasture that has grass, dirt, rocks, mud, and wetlands, and they move around enough that they don't need to be trimmed. I have another horse who HAS to be trimmed every 3-4 weeks no matter what kind of terrain I ride her on. I have a few others that can go 2.5-3 months between trims. And then there's my broodmare that has 4 shoes. They all have gorgeous, balanced feet. Every horse is unique, every horse has its own tolerances.

Boots can change the way the horse moves and stress joints and muscles, we have a horse here that when he throws a shoe we can't even put an easy boot on because he interfers and has to change how he moves which then creates problems in his shoulders or stifles (depending on whether it's front or back).

As to the actual question - we've had success with the Old Mac G2's - I recommend using the socks under the boots - but they are pretty clunky for a horse that is a more delicate structure or moves closely with its legs.

Re: Boots instead of shoes?

Gailforce — Fri, 13 May 2011 01:28:31 GMT

these aren't very good pics. just had my phonecamera.

1 and 2: back and left. 3, 4, 5: front and right

he had his feet trimmed may 2 and previously 15 wks before in november. also, i did have the farrier out in between those dates and he said they didn't need to be done. (i thought just a minor filing. a little primp you know)

sorry they're not very good pics (i don't know why some pics came out small and some large, they are all from my cameraphone). but you can see, especially in the last pic that the toes are being worn down very flat and square

Re: Boots instead of shoes?

Gailforce — Thu, 12 May 2011 13:43:08 GMT

Frizzle:
Gailforce, can we see pics of the hooves? Certainly, hooves do seem to grow less in the winter. But four months without getting trimmed is a looooooong time. I'd be interested to see how they look.

i was thinking that, but, today i am computer hell and so i didn't want to say, i'll put up pics if i wasn't going to follow through. i am going to try though.

Re: Boots instead of shoes?

Frizzle — Thu, 12 May 2011 12:44:54 GMT

Gailforce, can we see pics of the hooves? Certainly, hooves do seem to grow less in the winter. But four months without getting trimmed is a looooooong time. I'd be interested to see how they look.

Re: Boots instead of shoes?

Gailforce — Thu, 12 May 2011 12:35:18 GMT

Frizzle:
What?!!! There's no way a horse's walls, bars, sole, etc. would not need trimming after 4 months. I agree with the poster who said the chipping, etc. is most likely due to the hoof being too long and attempting to "self-trim.."

no, absolutely there wasn't excess. the reason i had him out that time was the horse had jammed a small stick up by his frog and i didn't know how deep it went in (had to use pliers to remove it). i said while your here you can trim or a least file a bit. and he said no there's no hoof to trim (there wasn't). so, it was 3 weeks or so later, i had him out for the trim and there still wasn't alot, he certainly wasn't overgrown (maybe 1/8th inch and not all way around either). the chips are just minor along the edges from the rocks. and there's no splits.

and the farrier did say they grow slower in the winter. which makes sense from the pattern i'm seeing over the last 2 years.

Re: Boots instead of shoes?

Solaris — Thu, 12 May 2011 12:34:42 GMT

The problem I had with boots is that none were able to stay on for galloping and jumping. Which is 2/3 of my sport. They worked well for walking and some light trotting, but my horse works much harder and faster than that. I went back to shoes and although barefoot has a lot of conveniences, my horse is much more comfortable now and life is easier.

As far as just doing fronts, horses carry about 60% of their weight on the front feet naturally, so many do ok with just front shoes. Often though, once you start asking them to really rock back on their hind end and use those hind legs a lot, they need the shoes to support/balance/protect from excessive wear.

Re: Boots instead of shoes?

Frizzle — Thu, 12 May 2011 12:10:52 GMT

48northfarm:

Shoes do not "protect" the hooves from water, but they prevent the hoof from eroding in a wet climate. My vet has seen hooves that look like putty due to being barefoot in a muddy area. The hoof walls lose their toughness if always getting soaked. Barefoot is great for a dry area--like eastern WA--but not great for the much wetter western WA. My very knowledgeable farrier agrees. I don't think that both of them are lacking in information about barefoot horses.

48, it rains constantlly for six months out of the year down here in Miami; basically, it's a swamp. And yet we have quite a few barefoot horses whose hooves are strong and healthy. Wet hooves are a big problem for all horses here, shod or unshod; I used to use Farrier Barrier to protect the hooves, but have found that the Keratex Hoof Gel works much better.

I'm not trying to put your vet or farrier down. Heck, I have a VERY knowledgable vet who graduated from Cornell; I respect him a lot. But barefoot is just one of those things that many people don't know much about. I suggest reading some of Dr. Robert Bowker's papers. He is a DVM/PhD who ONLY studies horse hooves; and he is one of the biggest proponents of keeping horses barefoot.

Re: Boots instead of shoes?

Frizzle — Thu, 12 May 2011 12:03:29 GMT

You could learn to trim your horse's hooves, but I wouldn't do it just off books/videos. Pete Ramey's DVS are very educational, but they're not enough to teach you how to do the trim yourself; you really need something hands-on for that. I know that the Oregon School of Natural Hoofcare does clinics all around the country teaching people to do trims. My trimmer graduated from there and she does an excellent trim..

I rasp the hooves about once a week between trims, just to keep the mustang roll going. You should be just fine doing this yourself if you watch Pete Ramey's DVDs.

Gailforce:
as for the wear, maybe my horses hooves don't grow very fast. the farrier was out about 6 weeks ago and they didn't need trimming after about 4 months over the winter.

What?!!! There's no way a horse's walls, bars, sole, etc. would not need trimming after 4 months. I agree with the poster who said the chipping, etc. is most likely due to the hoof being too long and attempting to "self-trim.." That's what happened to Salem's hopoves; he hadn't been trimmed in 3-4 months (he had been out of my care for a year) and his hooves were a huge mess! We've done two trims at two-week intervals so far; he'll have one more at the two-week mark and then we'll kick it back to a regular 5-week schedule.

Re: Boots instead of shoes?

48northfarm — Thu, 12 May 2011 08:50:21 GMT

Frizzle:
So, 48, your horses just might be able to go without shoes. I don't see how shoes would "protect" the hoof from water, anyway (??).

Shoes do not "protect" the hooves from water, but they prevent the hoof from eroding in a wet climate. My vet has seen hooves that look like putty due to being barefoot in a muddy area. The hoof walls lose their toughness if always getting soaked. Barefoot is great for a dry area--like eastern WA--but not great for the much wetter western WA. My very knowledgeable farrier agrees. I don't think that both of them are lacking in information about barefoot horses.

Re: Boots instead of shoes?

Dressage Misfit — Thu, 12 May 2011 06:44:09 GMT

Gailforce:

would a person be able to teach themselves to do the barefoot trim with the help of reading and/or videos?

Yes, it is possible! My daughter and I did, but we have an awesome barefoot farrier who gave us some tips. It's really spendy, but Pete Ramey has a video series that is used to teach farriers how to do barefoot trims. It's called Under the Horse http://www.hoofrehab.com/underthehorse.htm . I have a friend who actually found somewhere online to rent it. I just did ALOT of reading and research online and in books, took lots of pictures, and got feedback from both the farrier and a friend who also trimmed his own horses' hooves. If you don't feel comfortable going to that extent, buying a rasp and rolling the edges is absolutely ok!

Re: Boots instead of shoes?

FocusCalmPatience — Thu, 12 May 2011 05:12:38 GMT

You can definitely do touch ups after he trims. At my barn in Gainesville we had a regular farrier who did flatfooted trims and we kept all our horses barefoot. After he left we would all get our rasps to round off the edges. The shoe trim is just going to cause the foot to crack and chip a lot sooner. I wouldn't start completely doing the trims on my own, but its great to do some research so that you can do little touch ups here and there after a trim or in between trims. I haven't had to do it in forever, because shortly after we found a really good barefoot trimmer, and not, my farrier takes off too much hoof so there is no need at all for me to go behind him and do any work.

Re: Boots instead of shoes?

journeygirl — Thu, 12 May 2011 04:24:04 GMT

Look into easyboots Epic's or Gloves. They would be fine for what you want. I use the Old Mac G2's and they are clunky-ier. But they are fine.

If your horses feet are chipping all ready that means they need trimmed (or probably need to be rolled) all ready.

Re: Boots instead of shoes?

Gailforce — Wed, 11 May 2011 23:32:10 GMT

Frizzle:
I actually did a whole blog post about pasture trim versus barefoot trim here -- http://dressagewannabes.blogspot.com/2010/07/case-against-peripheral-loading.html

thanks, i'm going to read that. i have read quite a bit about barefoot, that's why i'm interested.

as for the wear, maybe my horses hooves don't grow very fast. the farrier was out about 6 weeks ago and they didn't need trimming after about 4 months over the winter. though he did say they don't grow as fast in the winter. he trimmed them about 2 weeks ago, but, the edges are getting all chipped with the riding (they didn't in the winter with no road work).

also, would it be worthwhile to buy a rasp to lightly smooth the rough edges like i do my fingernails (i know that makes me sound like a dumb girl)? i used to do emergency shoe pulling and trimming at a job i had, because, the owner would be too lackadaisacal(sp) to keep up the job on a regular basis.

would a person be able to teach themselves to do the barefoot trim with the help of reading and/or videos?

i like all the interesting feedback you guys are giving me. it's great to hear lots of opinions and ideas on things.

--gail

ps: good blog frizzle. thank you.

Re: Boots instead of shoes?

Frizzle — Wed, 11 May 2011 22:02:25 GMT

Gailforce:
the most obvious thing i see is that the barefoot trim has rolled the edges of the hoof and the normal trim is flat. what other differences are there?

I actually did a whole blog post about pasture trim versus barefoot trim here -- http://dressagewannabes.blogspot.com/2010/07/case-against-peripheral-loading.html

And not to say "don't listen to your vet/farrier" but a lot of them are not very well-informed about barefoot. Two years ago, my vet told me that my area has "way too hard ground for a horse to go barefoot," which is a bunch of malarkey. Well, now that he has done some research and gotten some correct information, he's totally on-board with barefoot. So, 48, your horses just might be able to go without shoes. I don't see how shoes would "protect" the hoof from water, anyway (??). I'd slap some Keratex Hoof Gel on, and I bet they would be fine.

If the hoof is properly trimmed, it would be pretty hard to wear it down too much just from riding on rough terrain. Heck, I WISH that it would wear the hooves down a bit, as that would really help to cut down on my trimming costs and the time I spend rasping my horse's hooves!