Horse Care

Re: Horse has swollen fetlock and vet is out until Wednesday...

Solaris — Wed, 21 Dec 2011 10:48:17 GMT

Sounds like he is healing well and on his way to normal, glad to hear it!

Re: Horse has swollen fetlock and vet is out until Wednesday...

lovmyhorses — Wed, 21 Dec 2011 08:12:50 GMT

I got some more pictures from this morning, the swelling is pretty much gone, so I didn't cold hose (didn't cold hose yesterday either). I'm continuing to wrap mostly since he seems to enjoy having his rear legs wrapped and he doesn't seem as stiff in the mornings as he usually is when it's this cold out.

This morning I took him out to the pasture through our roadside barways rather than his usual gate to avoid the rough ground, he was actually standing at the gate this morning, and when I opened it his pony buddy took off and he just stood there getting agitated. He actually threw out a buck while we were walking to the pasture, which although I'm happy to see him feeling good, he did get yelled at since he knows better than to buck when he's being led, and he walk the rest of the way perfectly and waited for me to unhook the fences and then rehook them before he was set free. Now I just have to teach our barn kitten that it's NOT ok to start attacking his tail while I'm wrapping his legs, especially since he doesn't like cats as it is, but he did behave. Personally I think he's enjoying all the extra attention he's been getting lately.

Picture from this am:

Re: Horse has swollen fetlock and vet is out until Wednesday...

lovmyhorses — Tue, 20 Dec 2011 20:49:19 GMT

The only medical issue I have ever known my horse to have is that he hyperextends his rear fetlocks which is believed to have been caused by stress from the track as a claimer.

I'm starting to think more and more that he either hit himself doing something, or that it was the change in joint supplement. Our current supplier is talking about not selling Rapid Flex anymore, so we decided we'd try Finish Line's brand which was Fluid Action HA, I've taken him off of it and put him back on his old joint supplement, and I'm thinking of ways to convince our supplier to continue to stock it.

Re: Horse has swollen fetlock and vet is out until Wednesday...

48northfarm — Tue, 20 Dec 2011 19:49:34 GMT

It sounds like Solo the 2nd's wound is much less serious than Havannah's. Hers were painful to work on--that's why I suggested to you the hay net, I thought Solo's was painful and that's why he wouldn't stand for you--but it appears it never was too painful and he usually stands for you without tying (after some re-education when you get home). Havannah's LR fetlock is still swollen, like Solo's, but hers has been like that for several months. My vet said that the LR leg must still be healing--last time I talked to her--but it's been an awfully long time, so I just emailed her for some advice. Like Solo, Havannah is not lame and her gaits are fine. She also has 2.5 acres to wander around. I'll be interested to see to what Solo's swelling is attributed.

Re: Horse has swollen fetlock and vet is out until Wednesday...

Solaris — Tue, 20 Dec 2011 18:20:28 GMT

Hey, it's Solo the 2nd, hee hee! But at any rate -- does he have a history of cellulitis by any chance? A gelding at our farm will get it on and off with no provocation and gets similar swelling to what you are describing. He is hosed and sometimes wrapped and that is generally enough to clear it. If it spreads up his leg, he gets antibiotics. But it can linger and make the joint stiff.

Re: Horse has swollen fetlock and vet is out until Wednesday...

lovmyhorses — Tue, 20 Dec 2011 14:25:13 GMT

Solaris it is still swollen, from his coronary band to his fetlock, but not nearly as bad as the day before, where it looked like he had a horse version of cankles. It's also hard to tell if his gate is altered because of the swelling or if it's the ground, but I'll try to get a video tomorrow (the sun has already gone down).

He doesn't have a temp or any heat which eliminates an infection in my opinion. My regular vet also stopped by to say hi since she was on her way by and seeing that Solo (my horse) was wrapped she looked him over, and having know him for close to 10 years (she was also his vet prior to me owning him) she thinks he was probably goofing off and whacked it on something or tried to take a tight turn a little to fast and tweaked it. She also suggested I continue with wrapping and cold hosing when it's above freezing, and then the bute was up to me.

Re: Horse has swollen fetlock and vet is out until Wednesday...

Solaris — Tue, 20 Dec 2011 13:33:23 GMT

Handle the horse however is safe and comfortable for you and your horse. Back to the issue the OP posted about -- I do not see any significant fill in your pictures, but not having hands and eyes on the horse in person, we cannot give a truly informed opinion. I don't see anything there that would concern me, but I can't see if your horse still has an altered gait.

Re: Horse has swollen fetlock and vet is out until Wednesday...

journeygirl — Tue, 20 Dec 2011 12:29:19 GMT

48northfarm:
Juno had to take meds after the surgery on her infected coffin bone, and this was the only way I could get her to take them. As far as your horse not standing as you work on his leg, try hanging a hay net in front of him to keep him happy as you're busy. That worked for Havannah when we bandaged her LR leg, and again she was not tied. Having your horse stand quietly as you work on him takes much more time, and requires polishing his ground manners. For that you'll need some instruction from a competent trainer. Good luck, and I hope his wound gets better soon.

48northfarm:
Solaris:
all horses should stand quietly when tied
That is true, but they should also stand quietly when NOT tied, just held loosely. Not tying a horse makes her responsible for her own behavior, and she doesn't stand b/c she has no choice but b/c you ask her to do so. Trusting the horse to be well-mannered makes for a better partnership between your and the horse. And in the case of the OP, she had nothing to tie to nor anyone to hold the lead, so if her horse had impeccable ground manners he would have stood, regardless. A horse that trusts you allows you to do anything to him b/c he knows that you will never ask him to do anything he can't do or that would hurt him.

Try not tying Solo, I bet he'd stand quietly. Not tying him tells him that you trust him, too. That's just part of a good relationship. It's the reason why I have no cross-ties in my barns.

So if you have to hang a hay bag in front of your horse to keep it quiet while you work, IMO, that horse isn't fully trained on ground manners. A horse should stand quietly no matter what when being handled. However, if the lower leg is all ready sore spraying it with cold water can be quite painful. I would move away too.

My sons mare got injured this spring. I could do everything needed to treat the injury completely at liberty, EXCEPT cold hose the leg. You can look up my thread on the Off the Wall board to see the extent of her injury. It wasn't a simple scrape. It was painful to her to have it worked on yet she stood right there other then for the cold hosing.

Just because the horse danced around for it doesn't mean they and the handler don't have a good relationship. Or that the horse has bad ground manners. It most likely means that it didn't feel good to the horse and that was how he was letting the handler know.

Re: Horse has swollen fetlock and vet is out until Wednesday...

lovmyhorses — Tue, 20 Dec 2011 12:05:09 GMT

The swelling has gone down, but it seems strange that he woul have stocked up as his overnight area is the size of a typical turnout paddock and then every day he has 25 acres of fenced pasture, though perhaps the hard ground has caused him to spend mor time standing than usual.

He does tie perfectly and does ground tie when I'm working with him by himself, but I do need to work with him on patience, he used to be perfect, but he has developed some bad habits that my mom allows him to get away with while I'm away at school, and it usually takes about 2 weeks for him to readjust and behave. He's never been a huge fan of people doing things to his feet, if your speedy he's fine, but our farrier loves to talk and it usually takes her 2 hours to trim and shoe my TB and then trim my pony, and since my mom has been caring for him she's the one "holding" him for the farrier, and he takes full advantage of her because even though she thinks she's dominant my horse has learned that he can easily take her for a walk with no serious consequences (something I've been trying to remedy for quite some time).

I didn't cold hose him today as it was only 20F, but the entire time I was working with him he stood still and behaved even though he wasn't even haltered. I am going to have to figure out something else rather than polos, I use polos frequently and know how to wrap, but this morning I walked out and caught him laying down (not unusual), but he was in the middle of taking the polo wrap off when I opened the door. Had the velcro undone and everything.

These are pictures from this morning...

Re: Horse has swollen fetlock and vet is out until Wednesday...

BoyleHeightsKid — Tue, 20 Dec 2011 10:54:41 GMT

Boy will stand perfectly still for a bath untied IF I use warm water. It's onl naturaly for them to wiggle and move around being sprayed with cold water.... I know I wouldn't like it. There's nothing wrong with tying him up for it (if he ties safely). In fact...if OP's horse is an exracer, while on the track, he spent hours in cross ties or tied in his stall and learned to stand patiently while doing it.

I think this horse is stocked up...some cold hosing, massage and turnout should be a big help... and ditch the bute.

eta: and this is JMHO... I don't care for the SMB boots... they hold in the heat and if left on too long can actually burn your horses skin. Please don't turn him out with them on or leave them on for a long time. I would be especially careful since he's a chestnut because they can be more skin sensitive. If you want something to leave on him get something like the fleece lined DSB boots, but the still need to be checked frequently. They won't really do anything for the stocking up but are more for protecting him from getting banged up. They always say it's better not to wrap then wrap incorrectly!

Re: Horse has swollen fetlock and vet is out until Wednesday...

48northfarm — Tue, 20 Dec 2011 10:28:43 GMT

Solaris:
all horses should stand quietly when tied

That is true, but they should also stand quietly when NOT tied, just held loosely. Not tying a horse makes her responsible for her own behavior, and she doesn't stand b/c she has no choice but b/c you ask her to do so. Trusting the horse to be well-mannered makes for a better partnership between your and the horse. And in the case of the OP, she had nothing to tie to nor anyone to hold the lead, so if her horse had impeccable ground manners he would have stood, regardless. A horse that trusts you allows you to do anything to him b/c he knows that you will never ask him to do anything he can't do or that would hurt him.

Try not tying Solo, I bet he'd stand quietly. Not tying him tells him that you trust him, too. That's just part of a good relationship. It's the reason why I have no cross-ties in my barns.

Re: Horse has swollen fetlock and vet is out until Wednesday...

Solaris — Tue, 20 Dec 2011 07:40:27 GMT

I'd agree with Boyle, sounds like some stocking up more than anything. Motion and warmth can help with that.

It's also perfectly fine to tie your horse -- in fact, all horses should stand quietly when tied, I consider that part of basic training. If someone put cold water on my legs in wintertime, I would wander off too! My horses are always cross tied while I am caring for them, they don't seem too traumatized as they doze.

Re: Horse has swollen fetlock and vet is out until Wednesday...

BoyleHeightsKid — Tue, 20 Dec 2011 05:12:07 GMT

Are you sure he's not just stocked up? In the pictures it looks to me like both hinds have some edema. Does the swelling (edema) improve with turnout? For something like this banamine might work better (IF it's a soft tissue injury). I have a TB gelding and he will stock up slightly if he's in over night or for any length of time. Your gelding is getting older and his lymphatic system could be starting to slow down causing him to stock up. A daily dose of good quality MSM or aspirin also helps with stocking up.

If there's no heat and he's not lame I wouldn't get too upset about it. If you're really worried about the edema, you can sweat the leg and that should take care of it over night. Sweating the leg is very easy, but you need to know how to properly wrap a leg.

Here's some info on sweating a leg:

http://www.aaep.org/health_articles_view.php?id=90&bcsi_scan_a7df3166a227563b=3IZ4xPnjEVU5UhTeaneFaGXzMk8oAAAACSdJBQ==&bcsi_scan_filename=health_articles_view.php

Please note the article is very specific on how to wrap the leg. If done incorrectly can severely hurt your horse, so please do not attempt if you don't know how to do it correctly.

Re: Horse has swollen fetlock and vet is out until Wednesday...

48northfarm — Mon, 19 Dec 2011 19:55:05 GMT

Yup. That's where polishing his ground manners comes in. And the hay net full of hay. He doesn't need to be that way, all it takes is some ground work so that he sees you as his leader and protector. He needs to know that you would never ask him to do anything he couldn't do, or anything that would hurt him. A natural horsemanship trainer would be the kind of person most likely to understand how to improve the human/horse partnership so that you have a horse who is good about doing everything with you without protesting..

Re: Horse has swollen fetlock and vet is out until Wednesday...

lovmyhorses — Mon, 19 Dec 2011 19:04:12 GMT

I don't tie him when I worm or give him medications, I'm talking about soaking his rear leg, if I hold a lead rope he thinks I want him to turn, yet since he doesn't like what I'm trying to do if I'm not holding him or have him tied he takes off.