I just want to say something here. On my birthday we had to have our pony put down due to a horrible accident. He was in so much PAIN the vet used the bolt gun to end his life , because he felt a lethal injection would prolong his suffering too much and would be cruel. Not ideal. Not pretty. but my little man was lead to a quiet place and in a second his pain was done. We are lucky enough to have parents with land. we were able to bury our little buddy in a spot where he hopefully not be disturbed. You can say all you want that remains are not hard to dispose of , but the reality is that if we didn't have the parents we would be in BIG trouble. Cost is not even the issue, I am willing to pay, there would have been nowhere to bury him. Unless you are suggesting that I buy an entire field as a pet cemetary? Anyway  I understand that you disagree with me and that is ok provided you are disagreeing and not demeaning :)

 I am wondering what happened to the op ??

Tricia, I am so sorry for your loss and it is good that you had the room for your horse to be buried.  I too was "lucky" in that regard when my 20-something TB gelding died unexpectedly several years age.  He was being boarded at a small private home of a friend and my friend's S.O. took care of everything to do with the unpleasant task of burying him on their property.  That other owners may not have that option in no way makes it right to take these horses to slaughter.  I personally have a problem with the amount of land wasted on cemetaries for humans.  At least in most cases, the horse, dog, cat, will eventually be returned to the earth as nature intended.  My solution for my dogs has been to have them cremated when their time has come and their ashes will be combined with mine and scattered together when my time comes.  It is possible to cremate a horse, but of course very expensive.  One option for a beloved horse is to donate the remains to the nearest equine vet school where they can learn from your companion and then dispose of the remains.  In many cases that means cremation and the ashes used as fertilizer for the grounds of the university. To be honest the means of disposal is not an issue for me, my friend no longer occupies the body... the torture and slaughter of healthy, active, in many cases young, horses as a delicacy is.  They're not being used to feed the starving masses, you know.  That, at least, would have some justification.

Tricia, I too am sorry for the loss of your beloved pony. It never easy to see our friend die. But let me ask you this... how would you feel if your pony was injured to the point where he was standing but in a lot of pain and would not be treatable. Then your parents said, no, we will not put him down, we will take him to the auction next week so he can be slaughtered. So your pony stands around for a week and then he is shipped off to be sold. You never see him again and you never know his fate. But you can assume it was not pleasant. Would you be ok with that? Because that's what a lot of people do with their "beloved pets" when the $$$ come into play.

thatwindow:

Tricia, I too am sorry for the loss of your beloved pony. It never easy to see our friend die. But let me ask you this... how would you feel if your pony was injured to the point where he was standing but in a lot of pain and would not be treatable. Then your parents said, no, we will not put him down, we will take him to the auction next week so he can be slaughtered. So your pony stands around for a week and then he is shipped off to be sold. You never see him again and you never know his fate. But you can assume it was not pleasant. Would you be ok with that? Because that's what a lot of people do with their "beloved pets" when the $$$ come into play.

As for getting rid of the remains. It is very simple. There is a service that will come and pick the body up and dispose of it. End of story. Yes, it costs money, but that is what is done. Most people don't have property to bury a 1000lb. horse. That is why there is a service.

As for horses starving to death. What did these horse owners do before the price of hay went up? If you can't afford an increase in feed prices, you have no business having a horse.

To drive the bottom line home, we need to stop over breeding. There are too many horses now. Don't bring more into an already bad situation.

Unfortunatly, in my area the are NO rendering plants left to dispose of the carcass for you.  We are not the only ones in that situation.  In some areas the are laws against burying large carcasses like that also.  THEN what's a person to do?  THe one that WAS servicing this area years ago would not take an animal unless it died of natural causes or a bullet.  If the animal was killed by lethal injection then they wouldn't take it.  What does someone do in that situation. 

BTW, DId you even read Tricia's post?  Tricia was making the point that vets use the captive bolt gun as a means to euthanize as well as drugs.   She wasn't saying anything about slaughter.  She was also making the point that thankfully her parents had land for her to bury her pony on.  Since she boards her horses she doesn't own land in which would give her a place to bury him. 

Sorry T, I had to step in there since I knew you'd be gone for the afternoon.

 

Thanks JG I know you got my back

I have 2 things to say in response:

First thing: The result would be the same if I had called the "service" you speak of, my Little man would have gone to a processing plant, and been processed or rendered into meat for something. As JG said that is not available if you have used lethal inject. I am not , as you seem to assume, a child whose emotions are easily manipulated. I am an adult and I have dealt with the realities of life for a long time, including living in a city where burying any animal outside of a "pet cemetary" or disposal by a vet is illegal. As I said money was not an issue for us when charming died. If I had told the vet I was not putting him down I have no doubt the spca would have been there that day. There is an auction in the city close to me every weak and I see the horses the meat buyers buy. Usually they are not the skinny sickly wounded horses, they are usually the ones that are running the fence trying to kill everyone who walks by. Meat buyers are in the business to make money and they seldom bid very high, they are easily outbid on any horse anyone actually wants. That said a bad tempered horse often goes for $50 -$100 so it is not like there is huge financial reward for the owners. I mean by all means if you feel strongly that all horses can be saved I would say take your savings and head for the auction. There is a guy who is a meat buyer near my house and if he does happen to get a horse that he feels can be rehabilitated he usually donates or sells them to someone else. He often has ads in the paper and I know some of the local camp horses came from the auction and left under this man's #. Also there are actual places that specialize in raising meat horses, they just don't run around advertising....

<steps down off soap box>

Second:

What happened to the op of this thread? It kind of looks like she posted this to get everyone worked up and cause disharmony but hasn't posted since. It says on her profile she had 2 posts but this is the only one I can find . 

You are correct, the number of horses slaughtered a year is 100,000, not 900,000 like what I said. I’m blaming my tired insomnia eyes/brain on that typo, not trying to grossly exaggerate the facts.  

I’m a little surprised to hear that zoos are switching their meat supply from horsemeat to beef because of the chemicals that are in the horse carcasses. Firstly because cows are pumped full of a surprising amount of growth hormones, wormers, etc which I guess aren’t harmful for the lions and tigers in the zoo? Especially since I imagine that meat would be the substandard beef that the USDA does not approve for human consumption. I heard the whole reason they went with horsemeat was because it was significantly leaner and more like the deer-type animals they’d eat in their natural habitats. Secondly because I wasn’t aware that the horses in the slaughter yards were taken care of so well in their past life. The auctions I’ve been to I’d say 90% of the horses that were bought by the killers were not old faithful school horses, throw away show horses, etc. Sure, you see those in there and you hear about the diamonds in the rough that people rescue (our barn’s gotten several fantastic horses ‘by the pound’). I would say the majority of the horses out there are from Idiot Farmer Joe who bred his untrained untalented conformationally scary stud and had 50 equally conformationally horrifying babies last year for who knows what reason, didn’t pay for a lick of training or even bothered to halter break them, realized with the droughts and thus the pastures dying that he couldn’t afford to keep any of them especially with the increasing cost of feed. Farrier? Heck, what’s that? Their hooves naturally break off after a certain point you know… I’m sure wormer and supplements are far out of his vocabulary. What scares me the most is that now that Idiot Farmer Joe has no place to take his horses and no money to buy them feed and certainly no one who wants to buy them for $50 off Craigslist. Is it fair to the horses that they have to suffer for someone’s irresponsibility? Absolutely not! I agree with you on this one, we have GOT to do something about the throw away mentality of “animal people” everywhere. I don't think slaughter is the answer, in fact I'd LOVE to see slaughter plants close by going out of business!

 

And I agree with Tricia. I haven't been to auctions outside of where I live but the killer buyers generally go for the ones that no one else is bidding on. In fact, the ones in the biggest auction place around here kind of have a pact that they stop bidding as soon as a non-kill buyer starts.

 

And just to add... putting down horses is NOT a simple procedure. Even if you have the land where it's legal to bury a 1000 lb animal (which in city limits it not) most people don't have the backhoe to bury a hole that big. The total cost of the vet visit and backhoe rental totals to over $500. I can assure you that Idiot Joe farmer who won't pay for hay isn't going to be burying horses any time soon. So, instead they usually stand in pastures with no grass getting skinnier and skinnier.  

And a question.... I had the understanding that double decker trailers were against the law unless they are specifically made for horse transport? (Which I also heard that they were starting to make). And that you couldn't transport a horse that was lame or sick? (Please correct me if I heard wrongly!) I'm not naive to think that it never happens but instead of closing down the plants lets lobby for better conditions!!!

Another point I'd like to add... there are actually people who's job is to go around to feed lots and slaughter plants to research how to reduce the level of stress as much as possible amongst the animals. The higher the stress the higher the level of adrenaline/hormones that make for a "red cutter", a really bad piece of meat that people overseas won't buy. It doesn't benefit anyone by beating animals and using cattle prods as so many people tend to think happens daily at every plant.

kc192:

You are correct, the number of horses slaughtered a year is 100,000, not 900,000 like what I said. I’m blaming my tired insomnia eyes/brain on that typo, not trying to grossly exaggerate the facts.  

I’m a little surprised to hear that zoos are switching their meat supply from horsemeat to beef because of the chemicals that are in the horse carcasses. Firstly because cows are pumped full of a surprising amount of growth hormones, wormers, etc which I guess aren’t harmful for the lions and tigers in the zoo? Especially since I imagine that meat would be the substandard beef that the USDA does not approve for human consumption. I heard the whole reason they went with horsemeat was because it was significantly leaner and more like the deer-type animals they’d eat in their natural habitats. Secondly because I wasn’t aware that the horses in the slaughter yards were taken care of so well in their past life. The auctions I’ve been to I’d say 90% of the horses that were bought by the killers were not old faithful school horses, throw away show horses, etc. Sure, you see those in there and you hear about the diamonds in the rough that people rescue (our barn’s gotten several fantastic horses ‘by the pound’). I would say the majority of the horses out there are from Idiot Farmer Joe who bred his untrained untalented conformationally scary stud and had 50 equally conformationally horrifying babies last year for who knows what reason, didn’t pay for a lick of training or even bothered to halter break them, realized with the droughts and thus the pastures dying that he couldn’t afford to keep any of them especially with the increasing cost of feed. Farrier? Heck, what’s that? Their hooves naturally break off after a certain point you know… I’m sure wormer and supplements are far out of his vocabulary. What scares me the most is that now that Idiot Farmer Joe has no place to take his horses and no money to buy them feed and certainly no one who wants to buy them for $50 off Craigslist. Is it fair to the horses that they have to suffer for someone’s irresponsibility? Absolutely not! I agree with you on this one, we have GOT to do something about the throw away mentality of “animal people” everywhere. I don't think slaughter is the answer, in fact I'd LOVE to see slaughter plants close by going out of business!

 

And I agree with Tricia. I haven't been to auctions outside of where I live but the killer buyers generally go for the ones that no one else is bidding on. In fact, the ones in the biggest auction place around here kind of have a pact that they stop bidding as soon as a non-kill buyer starts.

 

And just to add... putting down horses is NOT a simple procedure. Even if you have the land where it's legal to bury a 1000 lb animal (which in city limits it not) most people don't have the backhoe to bury a hole that big. The total cost of the vet visit and backhoe rental totals to over $500. I can assure you that Idiot Joe farmer who won't pay for hay isn't going to be burying horses any time soon. So, instead they usually stand in pastures with no grass getting skinnier and skinnier.  

And a question.... I had the understanding that double decker trailers were against the law unless they are specifically made for horse transport? (Which I also heard that they were starting to make). And that you couldn't transport a horse that was lame or sick? (Please correct me if I heard wrongly!) I'm not naive to think that it never happens but instead of closing down the plants lets lobby for better conditions!!!

First, The zoos are picky about the meat and there are cattle ranchers that sell to zoos that have "all natural" meat.  ie, no addatives or perservatives of any kind.  It's a big buisness.

Second, with out doing a little research as to the dates, they did make it illegal to haul horses in the double decker trailers.  THat being said I've been to the local auction were there are a lot of kill buyers and I asked the driver about that.  He told me they are allowed to use the trailers as long as they only haul on the bottom deck and the horses are tied.  He said it was a pain in the *** but that's what he had to do.

I to have seen many a kill buyer pass right over the starved nasty skinny ones because there was no money in them. 

Earlier today a friend called me to see if there were any rendering plants over this way cause her neighbors horse had died and they wern't sure they were going to be able to get a hole dug to bury the horse.  I made some calls and did some looking and found none.  She's already been looking for about an hour when she called me.  This has nothing to do with the original topic but what the guy ended up doing is calling a local park that has big cats and they came and picked up the horse.  Not his first choice but he did what had to be done.  So, long story short, It's not always easy to get rid of the carcass.  He got lucky cause of that park, BTW, he tried the local zoo first and they declined him cause they are apparently VERY picky where they get their meat from. They gave him the name of the other place. 

OH, T, Your welcome.

Yes, my sister lost a horse, and I have been with several other friends that lost horses, (all colics, BTW...awful!) and each one of them had to scramble to come up with the cash to have the remains hauled off.  Cremation is expensive even for smaller animals, and not practical for horses.  There just aren't suitable places to dispose of them, and sometimes even if you have acreage, there are laws against burial.....

Since I have seen this first hand, if I am in that position, I might euthanize with a bolt, and donate to the local zoo, or wildlife refuge....  It all depends on the situation at the time.  I do not have enough area for burial....  also my down slope neighbors on wells might take exception as well.  I know I would...

A lot of people find horse meat very sweet, and really enjoy the flavor.  I do not fault them for that.  I can't stand lamb either, but lots of people love it.  We humans emotionalize and humanize our close pets, and don't like to think of them scared, hungry and hurt, so slaughter is disapproved of...  But where will all those horses go when nobody can feed them anymore? 

The only complaint I have with slaughter is that mild cows and flighty horses are not the same and should have a better method than they do.  How would you slaughter a food animal like a deer?  A spooky, flighty animal needs different methods to be truly humane....  Cows are sort of "short bus" special when it comes to placid....

It would be nice if somebody would come up with a solution.  Breeders should have to be held accountable for the numbers of horses they bring into this world. 

Just my opinion on the subject, and I suspect that the OP was just a troll trying to stir a pot that we have already washed and put away.  :)

"Just my opinion on the subject, and I suspect that the OP was just a troll trying to stir a pot that we have already washed and put away.  :)"

LOL

Very well put.

And for some reason, even though I know where I stand on the issue (which, by the way has changed over the years), I still find myself reading every single post whenever this topic comes up!

What can I say....  I love debates.  I love seeing the different sides & hearing everyone's view points!

I live near a city and eventually will have to put my pony down when he is too old or something else happens, "knock on wood" that does not occur soon.  I plan to have him cremated if possible and a friend who did this had a bank account for just that purpose.  I know it all costs money, but so does everything in life.  I would support anyone who would put down their old horse rather than to just give them away to someone they don't know.  Death is not the worst thing that can happen to a person or an animal, suffering and neglect are worse IMO.  Funny how people get so cheap when it comes to taking care of their "friend".  Their big justification is that he has some years left, but what quality, what misery, what does free to a good home mean? 

 I support slaughter in this Country, because it is highly regulated and the plants were pretty close geographically.  Now the animals have to travel and the Mexican situation is appauling to say the least.  There is a wonderful book called Animals in Translation by Temple Grandin who has a Phd and works with the slaughter industry to keep the stress down for the animals and to help them create a humane environment.  If you have a chance, pick up her book and read about how animals view things and what she has done to improve the slaughter industry and how to relate to our own animals and how they relate to us.

 I agree that the breeders should be held accountable for their breeding practices and their should be some kind of licensing or fees attatched to horse sales that goes back to the rescue facilities.  It might also be a good idea if every show class had a $1.00 fee added on to help support the rescues too, the USEF, Dressage and USET should institute this and the money would stay local.  Imagine how much that might help.  There is too much dumping of animals that can't do their "job" and who have been broken by over zealous riders doing too much too soon or too often.  It is immoral.

I have to say that I dread the issues of the magazines I subscribe to this time of year when all they talk about is the magic of foaling and breeding so that everyone thinks they can do it.  Foals are cute, but they need a lot of work.    There is much too much dumping of animals who don't do their "jobs" well enough or get too old for my taste.  And for those people who don't think that animals are being left to starve watch Animal Precinct on Animal Planet or just go to your local shelter.  The ASPCA shelter in Dedham, MA has quite a few young horse that were brought in because of starvation and neglect.  At least they are safe now, but what about the others?  I agree with everyone else that the back yard breeding has to stop.  Susan

For or against?  I have to admit I am still torn over this issue.  There are valid arguments for both sides.  I hate the thought of beautiful, sensitive, frightened horses being slaughtered.  And I do believe there is a difference between cattle and horses.  Cattle have been raised and bred for generations as a food source, while horses have been increasingly raised and bred to be companion animals.  My husband worked for a short time at a cattle processing plant and was amazed that the cattle would stand in line and calmly watch their buddy dispatched in front of them and then step up for it's own turn.  I doubt a horse would react the same way. 

However, there is no doubt that there are 1,000s of unwanted horses in this country and that there has to be some solution for their euthansia and disposal.  I, too, live in an area that does not have renderers, which is becoming more and more common.  But I have done my research and my homework and come up with solutions to dispose of my horses when the time comes.  Every responsible horseowner should take the time NOW to figure out a plan to deal with the loss of their animal to avoid the panicked descisions in an emergency. 

I have a problem with horse owners, who, when their animal becomes unusable or no longer wanted or needed, would rather make a few hundred dollars off the poor beast than spend a few hundred to give it a peaceful end.  But I do believe that many people take their horses to auctions in the hope that someone, somewhere, will buy it and give it a better life.  I think they turn a blind eye to the reality of what may happen to that horse.

But to ban slaughter suddenly and with no alternate plan in place is unwise.  We need an educational plan and a national rescue plan that would help horse owners when they need to dispose of their animal.  I believe we need a special tax on horse feed, tack, supplements, etc., that is earmarked for education, legitimate horse rescues, rehabilitation, euthanasia and disposal of horses.  A couple of pennies for every dollar we spend on our horses would go a long way in helping with the solution. 

Tricia, I did read your post. I agree, you are fortunate to have had a place to bury your pony and the opportunity to give him a peaceful end. I don't have a problem with the way he was put down either. He died at home in a familiar place where he felt safe. I'm sure his death was instant and painless. No problem. But you did not answer my question. If you were unable to have him put down at home, would you send him to auction? Yes or no?

First of all I am not PRO slaughter, I am just not ANTI slaughter. I am also a realist. Would I ship an injured animal anywhere.... no . Would my local auction allow me to list an animal so seriously injured....no. Would a meat buyer bid on him that injured .....no. Would I have the local SPCA down my throat in a heartbeat ....YES. I think the biggest thing to ask if you are anti slaughter is not would I auction my animal, auction is not an automatic death sentence as the propaganda would have you believe. The question is would YOU  BUY a dangerous horse to save it from slaughter and give it a home or have put down. Would YOU put your money were your hate propaganda is ? I have never been in a situation where I had animals I couldn't care for. I can't say what I would do. I can tell you that no one is going to eat an animal that is slaughtered when it is injured stressed or sick. How do I know this ??? I have hunting experience and have spent a winter or 2 choking back meat from a buck that had been running . Would I buy a psycho horse to save it from slaughter... no. would I go and check out a slaughter plant before I started running my mouth ....yes

 

 

Actually, yes, I would by a psycho or injured horse to have it put down. I have done it with dogs cats and a horse. You are wrong. Most of the horses at a livestock auction are injured. There are countless race horses that go to auction everyday. NOT because they are psycho. Because they are no longer profitable. They are injured and in pain. I have seen it with my own eyes. My Standardbred came from an auction where he was going to be sold for slaughter. He could barely walk. But they were bidding because he is big and meaty. Not psycho. I don't know 100,000 horses a year that are psycho. No, auction isn't a guarantee of slaughter, but its a good bet. Injured horses are sold for meat and the killer buyers have no problem buying them. Why do you think they are there? As long as they aren't full of drugs they can be sold for meat or dog food. I have been around cattle all my life. I have been to more than one slaughter house. Slaughter is not pretty, even in the best of circumstances. I DO put my money where my mouth is. I own 3 rescued horses and support a local rescue on a monthly basis and I foster horses when the rescue is full. One of my horses is a little psycho. But she has a home with me until the day she dies. Not because I'm attached to her, but because that is the commitment I made to her when I got her.