The first thing I want to say in regard to the last two posts is... deep breaths please!  This is an emotional issue. The huge majority of us, I daresay, would like to see horse slaughter go away due to no more unwanted horses and some enlightenment among the nations that think it's ok. And I'm still interested in knowing if they raise their own horses for slaughter or depend on the "barbaric Americans" to do the dirty for them.

The problem with not being "anti" something is that by default it puts a person in the "pro" position.  Sort of the "all it takes for evil to flourish..." idea.

Addressing the "dangerous horse" concept - while I am sure there are indeed those horses sent to auctions and offered privately, why are we to assume that the majority of horses are sent to auction for that reason?  I have bought/rescued 5 horses from our local auction.  This auction trades very heavily in trained western-type horses that are not at risk of going to a KB... maybe a dealer, but in most cases the dealer sends them east where he can get a lot more than here in the Midwest.  There is a basically KB auction in northern Indiana, much like the one in New Holland.  People rescue the OTTBs from the NH auction on a regular basis.  The horses I bought were: a 3yo TB gelding (now 7 yo and happily placed in a loving home) who was like a large dog, following me everywhere ,who loved to grab hats from heads, brushes from grooming boxes and who thought a bucket (without the handle) was a great thing to throw and kick around; a 15 yo Saddlebred, also placed, who was a nervous wreck, but the sweetest guy I've known; a 20-something QH mare sent because she was now barren, who would lay her head on my shoulder and heave a great sigh (also placed); a gorgeous little paint mare who was afraid to be touched for months after I got her, but eventually became a lovebucket and who was certainly never dangerous, except to my aforementioned TB gelding who sometimes got a little "fresh" with her; and an older TB broodmare from Australian royal bloodlines, also barren, who became bossmare of my little herd and would come nuzzling and whickering up for her rubbing or treats.  Obviously I've been to auctions.  And I would say that the reason many of the horses appear dangerous is because they are thrown into a trailer, sometimes packed in is a better description, hauled for miles, unloaded in a new, very scary, very noisy place where they are tied up for hours while strangers poke and prod and want to see their paces, then hauled into a small arena with a large noisy crowd and again pushed, poked and prodded.  We are talking prey animals - they have two instincts - fight or flight and flight is not an option.   Hmmm!

As for visiting a slaughterhouse, why on earth would I want to do that?  No matter how "humane" the slaughter method, it still goes against what I believe.

Maybe we could throw the freeloading cattle ranchers off the public lands and put the animals that belong there back into managed herds, packs, etc, and eat a little less beef.  Am I the only one who knows the reality of what the BLM actually does with our tax $$$s?

Do I think that's going to happen anytime soon?  H3!! no! but if people who care enough keep nagging away then generations from now our great-great-100Xgreat-grandchildren may see it happen.

It was only a few decades ago that people of color had to use separate bathrooms, sit in the back of the bus, and the KKK operated with impunity.

I can dream..

 

OK, now I'm taking deep breaths... Whew! I did say an emotional topic, right?

thatwindow:

Actually yes, I would by a psycho or injured horse to have it put down. You are wrong. Most of the horses at a livestock auction are injured. There are countless race horses that go to auction everyday. NOT because they are psycho.

OK, now Tricia will have to correct me if I'm wrong (and then everyone can disregard this part of my post) but I'm thinking that by psycho, she means seriously mentally ill to the point of fatally dangerous.  And yes, most horses are injured when they go to auction, not psycho, but that is not the point.

Also, i don't really understand why you would buy an injured horse just to put it down.  I mean if you want to you can but it would make more sense to let them go.  Either way they will be put down.  If the slaughter hourses in the US were still legal they would be put down just as humanly as if you would have it done.  Then it would cost you nothing and you could put that money into saving a different horse that you could get something out of. Just my two cents.

If we had to sell one of my horses and we could not find a private buyer we would most likely send her to an auction.  In fact we almost sent one of our horses to an auction but my mom decided morning of that she wanted to keep her and now she has become my dream horse.

It is my understanding that there are farms in Europe that raise horses for the meat market.  Mainly draft type horses and breeds that would otherwise would no longer exist.  These farms are not able to keep up with demand, so the horse meat buyers go to where they can get more horses, North and South America and Australia.  It is a matter of economics, supply and demand.  As long as there is a demand for horse meat for human consumption, there will be someone going to where there is a supply of horses to buy for this market. 

Some people have mistaken notion that because there is a large supply of horses in the U.S., that is why they are going to slaughter, not true, it is because of the demand for horse meat in Europe and Japan that so many horses are going to slaughter.  If tomorrow the horse meat eaters would decide they weren't going to eat horse meat any more, and stopped buying it, then slaughter would stop within a few days, simply because there would be no money in it.  No demand, no reason to continue supply it. 

Think of it this way, you wake up in the morning to find your property covered with widgets, you have lots and lots of widgets, no one else has any, you have them all.  You have the only supply, so therefore there must be a demand, right?  You collect your widgets, set up a stand, advertise and wait for the world to beat a path to your door.  But what if no one is interested?  And it turns out that no one wants a widget and you can't even give them away.  It's the same way with the horse slaughter issue.  Someone from Europe didn't come here and see that we have a lot of excess horses, decide to buy and slaughter them and ship them to where there was no demand.  There was a demand, so the buyers came to where the supply is.  If the supply here were to drop, with the demand the same, the buyer will pay more for the horses he does buy or go elsewhere. 

In anycase, there has been the slaughter of horses for meat even before the horse was domesticated.  And when a horse was no longer useful, it would be it would be sent to the killers because the owner couldn't afford or had no way of retireing a horse who was of no use to him. 

So really the question should be do we slaughter here in the U. S. with humane controls and with regulations to make sure that the person who sells to slaughter is the true owner.  Or do we allow our horses to be bought here and shipped out of the country to where they don't care how humanely the horses are treated or if they are stolen.  But then again, it seems that the anti's don't care about that.  It's just that they don't want it done here in the U. S.  Also it seems odd to me that they are offended that well to do Euopeans and Japanese are buying horse meat, but indicate they would be ok with horse meat going to feed starving people in third world countries.  It seems to me that if a person is against slaughter for human consumption, they should be against it being done anywhere in the world and against anyone anywhere eating horse meat anywhere for any reason. 

My opinion, take it or leave it.

Spotted Pony

 

so I assume those who are anti slaughter are then vegatarian?

I am a realist. Talk to someone who runs a no kill shelter sometime. Meatbuyers have guidlines to follow just like any food industry. There is no point is shipping horses for processing that can't be legally slaughtered and vets euthanize using the same methods. I am not pro slaughter however I am not anti slaughter I am also not a zealot. I don't really think that propaganda is true in any issue and believe the truth is between 2 stories. Extremeist prey on emotion hoping for results and the only result I have personally experienced is a firmer entrencing of the belief that the anti slaughter camp is extermist. This thread is falling into a huge aurguement so I am done with it. It serves no practical purpose. You don't like the meat buyer? Outbid him and move on.

 

PS well met spotted

Also, i don't really understand why you would buy an injured horse just to put it down.  I mean if you want to you can but it would make more sense to let them go.  Either way they will be put down.  If the slaughter hourses in the US were still legal they would be put down just as humanly as if you would have it done.  Then it would cost you nothing and you could put that money into saving a different horse that you could get something out of. Just my two cents.

I don't think it's fallen so much into just a big argument, as that it is getting too personal.

Address the idea, not the person.

And for what it's worth, I'm seeing a whole lot of extremism on both sides.

The following rant is not a solution to the slaughter issue. It's just what I think is part of the problem. In advance, please forgive my venting! I'm sure not all of you will agree with me, but here goes...

I believe that the "unwanted horse" situation exists mainly because of greed. You have the racing breeders who keeps breeding and breeding in hopes of making millions of $. The vast majority of the get are at best mediocre. They don't win on the track, so they're sold to the highest bidder. I used to board on a TB breeding farm in PA and worked at tracks on both coasts, and this mediocrity is my opinion based on my observations. Then, you have the big breeding farms who breed registered horses in hopes of making big bucks. Some of the get are good, or even great. There are also the not-so-great ones. Again, they're sold to the highest bidder. BTW, I'm using the term "highest bidder" meaning a person who will pay the most, not necessarily at auction.

On the other hand, you have the backyard breeders who (most of them, not all of them) don't have a clue as to what matings to make to produce an exceptional foal, much less what to do with the foal once it's born. They just want the "experience" of raising a foal. Like someone posted previously, a horse with excellent bloodlines which is not trained to be useful is not worth as much as a trained one. Oh sure, you can use it for breeding, but then the cycle starts over. I myself would love to breed hubby's mare, but I won't because I don't want to be part of the problem. That's really the only solution I have to the whole mess, is doing my little part. I wish I had some wise solution but I don't and it frustrates the heck out of me. I used to be anti-slaughter, but now I find myself vacillating back and forth about it. In trying to appease our sensitivities, I'm afraid we have created another whole problem with the slaughter ban.

I really hope that eventually unwanted horse/slaughter situation will all balance itself out over time. But how long will it take?? It breaks my heart every time I think about it. We as humans are supposed to be the superior beings on this planet, but sometimes I really have my doubts. We can't even manage our own over-breeding! And you don't see the animals out there screwing each other over for the almighty buck! Kind of makes me think they are the superior beings!!

 PS: Solaris, you have my vote for spaying fillies and gelding colts, unless they pass very stringent requirements making them worthy of breeding!

 

 

 

 

Very good vent Scout's Mom!!

And let's not forget that the entire racing industry is fueled by gambling - that's where the real $$$, greed and power lies.  The legitimate rescues need to be getting a big percentage of those proceeds - like 20%.  After all the ones causing the problem should be paying for the solution.

And a hearty ditto on spaying and gelding.  Perhaps a hefty tax and license to breed, with the $$ going to state supervised rescue/retirement foundations and to help owners pay for the neutering process.

Of course, I'd have more faith that this might happen, if I didn't think the politicians, owners, gambling czars, etc are all in league together.

SpottedPony_horse:

It is my understanding that there are farms in Europe that raise horses for the meat market.  Mainly draft type horses and breeds that would otherwise would no longer exist.  These farms are not able to keep up with demand, so the horse meat buyers go to where they can get more horses, North and South America and Australia.  It is a matter of economics, supply and demand.  As long as there is a demand for horse meat for human consumption, there will be someone going to where there is a supply of horses to buy for this market. 

In anycase, there has been the slaughter of horses for meat even before the horse was domesticated.  And when a horse was no longer useful, it would be it would be sent to the killers because the owner couldn't afford or had no way of retireing a horse who was of no use to him.

 

Honestly, I wasn't going to enter this debate, even though I have been following it. I'm not Pro, I'm not Anti. I live in the real world and understand that there have been times in history where horses have been slaughtered for food. I understand that people still do. That's all I'm going to say. It's not that I don't love to debate (I really do!), it seems like this issue is going in circles!

thatwindow:

Also, i don't really understand why you would buy an injured horse just to put it down.  I mean if you want to you can but it would make more sense to let them go.  Either way they will be put down.  If the slaughter hourses in the US were still legal they would be put down just as humanly as if you would have it done.  Then it would cost you nothing and you could put that money into saving a different horse that you could get something out of. Just my two cents.

I did it because the horse was suffering and I wanted to give a quick and peaceful ending.

AGAIN, I am not against the killing of animals for food. It is the treatment and transport that I am against. You jumped all over me for "not reading"  Tricia's post. Try reading mine before you pass judgement on my actions. I have said this 3 times now. But you keep going back to the slaughter. I have rescue horses, I financially support a rescue.  Lets talk about the transport and treatment. Do you have a defense? 

That's what this thread is SUSPOSED to be about.

 

I started out posting in this thread saying that the problem is over breeding. That is the plain and simple truth. Somehow is did get personal. I want to take it back to the facts. Right or wrong, good or bad, necessary or not, slaughter is not a pretty thing. Any animal going through it suffers to some extent. There is no way to deny that. We all need to consider this when breeding, buying and betting on horses. I will not go to the races because I have seen and owned the throw away remains of the industry. And in the end it does come down to the almighty $. Rescues need them just as badly as the racing industry and all the big breeders. Money is what it is all about. Half the posts in this thread talked about the inability to care for or depose of a horse...$$$$. That is why it is so important to support rescues. You may never consider a rescue horse. But that is even a greater reason for you to donate to one. If you can afford to buy a $3000, $10,000 or even a $50,000 horse, can't you find it in yourself to give to the less fortunate ones. If every horse owner in this country gave just $1 a month to a rescue the slaughter of horses would end immediately. You would spend that on coffee without a thought. Make that commitment today. I think we can ALL agree that it would be best if there was no NEED to send a horse to slaughter.

Bravo!! thatwindow.  Very well spoken!!

thatwindow:

I think we can ALL agree that it would be best if there was no NEED to send a horse to slaughter.

Cotoncandle... are you really serious with that post? Are you comparing fish to companion horses? People here have posted that they have a NEED to send a horse to auction. I believe that MOST (not all) horse owners, if given the option of finding the horse a good home, would choose that option over slaughter. That is eliminating the NEED for slaughter.

Yes I'm serious. To me, yes horses are animals with wich I have developped a deeper connection but to some people they're not much more than a pig, cow, rooster or fish. You need to understand that not every single person on this earth sees horses the way we do. I know of horse owners that don't give a hoot what happens with their horses. To them, horses are work tools, money makers, not companions, wether they end up in a slaughter house or a retirement home doesn't really bother them much.