Hi, everybody:)

 Since about April 2009, when my horse and I got back into lessons my horse and I have been steadily improving together, but one little thing is holding us back:  I am having a heck of a time keeping my legs underneath me and my butt out of the saddle when I trot and especially canter in two point. 

 Does anybody have some really good advice about how to improve my two-point without me 1. tensing up and, therefore, making my horse tense 2. leaning too far forward 3. falling down onto my horse's back?

 Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Its really hard, lol, I cant get it either! I think its mainly a matter of conditioning.. I'm sure someone on here will have some easy ways to think about it, in fact I feel like there was a thread about this not that long ago, I will look for it!

Try raising your stirrups a hole, it might help get your leg in a more secure position.

Thanks, I'll try that

Hope it helps. :) 

 Does your saddle fit you?  If your saddle is too small, it will be much harder to leg your leg underneath you, since it will want to shoot out in front of you, if your butt is up against the cantle.

If that's not the problem, unfortunately, the only solution is to practice to gain strength and balance.  Try for a correct two point for short periods of time.  As you get stronger, go for longer periods of time.  Practice at all gaits - two point at the walk is HARD!!  Also, ride without stirrups, in and out of your two point.  

You need to be able to balance on your own two feet in the two point position on the ground.  Practice the movement on the ground, too.  Stand with your feet shoulder distance apart and push your butt back as you bend your knees to simulate the two point position.  If you lean too far forward, you'll fall over.  You need to be balanced over your feet and not relying on anything to help support you.  This will also help you not to fall down on your horse's back.  If you can master the position on the ground, transfer that same feeling when you're on your horse.  You now know the position (from muscle strength and memory), so hopefully that will ease your tension.

Good luck!

An exercise I have people do:

At the halt, stand straight up in the stirrups.  All the way up.  Now balance with no hands, standing up.  You will not be able to do it unless your legs are underneath you.

Now, without moving your legs (you can hold onto the saddle for this part) slowly allow your knee to bend and your hip to close as you lower your butt back and closer to the saddle until you are in a correct two point.  Now let go of the saddle and balance.  Again, you will not be able to do it unless your legs are underneath you.

Rinse and repeat.  A lot.  Then move to the walk.  Then trot.

remmer is right about only doing it for short periods of time.  You want to build in CORRECT muscle memory.  Even if you only do it for one or two steps at first, that is better than doing it wrong while forcing yourself through long periods of time, that's not teaching you anything.

 You've gotten some good advice. Here's another little game you can try. At the trot, start by posting. Get thee into a nice posting rhythm, then go into two-point for a limited number of strides, say three to start. Go back to posting. If you want to torture yourself even more, go from posting to sitting trot next time, same thing, only for a few strides. Post three strides, up three strides, post three strides, sit three strides. Over and over. Once your legs are staying where they belong for three strides, add a stride or two for each thing.

 You can do something similar at the canter, as long as you have a good seat when you sit the canter. Don't be ashamed to hold the mane at first.

 Oh yeah, try this bareback too. (My instructor has soooo many evil ideas. . . . ) 

 And . . . the more work you can do on the lunge line, the better you'll get.

Thanks for your help, Remmer  I'm sorry it took me so long to respond.  I have been out of town (visiting my parents) and it has been difficult to get to a computer and have the time to spend on it.

 My saddle does fit me (had a professional saddle fitter fit my horse and I a few months ago) and it has improved my position tremendously!  Our old saddle didn't fit both of us.

remmer:

You need to be able to balance on your own two feet in the two point position on the ground.

  I will try this as soon as I get home (tommorrow) and then will try to do the same thing while riding my horse.  I will also try 2 point without stirrups, which I know will be difficult but helpful

I'm not too bad at 2 point while riding in the walk and trot, but I'm having a horrible time at the canter.  Well, practice makes perfect, I guess.

 Thanks for your help, Solaris  As I said to Remmer:  I'm sorry I did not respond sooner.  I have been visiting my parents and have had difficulty finding computer time.

 

Solaris:

You will not be able to do it unless your legs are underneath you.

  I think that my main problem with 2 point is my leg position.  My legs tend to slip forward and I tend to fall on my butt, which my horse doesn't like and he increases his speed when this happens (it happens mostly at the canter).  As a result, I get more tense and fall back on my butt more, thus creating a vicious cycle.

I will take your advice and practice the stand and lower exercise and will do periods of 2 point for short periods of time and build my way up.

Thanks, My Gracie

I have been out of town and was just able to read your advice and greatly appreciate it. 

My Gracie:

Post three strides, up three strides, post three strides, sit three strides.

I will try this because I'm also having some difficulty with my sitting trot, too.

 

Thanks, My Gracie

I have been out of town and was just able to read your advice and greatly appreciate it. 

My Gracie:

Post three strides, up three strides, post three strides, sit three strides.

I will try this because I'm also having some difficulty with my sitting trot, too.

 

You shoud also make sure to grab a chunk of mane to help you stay up.  You can also use a stirrup leather to put around his neck as a grab strap to help your stability.  Also, check make sure that you are not pinching with your knee and that your weight is sinking down into your heels.  Hope this helps!

Wow, everyone has GREAT ideas! I guess there's no excuse for me now to not work that much harder...

One thing a trainer of mine used to do was have me post the canter. It's impossible to do gracefully and well if your leg isn't just about perfect. It also gives you a different feel for being out of the saddle and works those stomach muscles! Alternate positions just like someone said to do at the trot. A few strides sitting, a few posting and a few in a true 2 point. Grab a big ol' handfull of mane if you need to.

 Ride more without stirrups.  Even posting without stirrups will help your strength and lower leg position (it is impossible to post without stirrups when your legs are too far out in front of you.  another tip I got from a classical dressage trainer once was to imagine you are an amputee when you are riding and that your legs have been cut off just below the knees, if you can imagine this right, let your weight sink down your thigh while keeping your lower leg relaxed like it is non-existant.  This should free your lower leg so that you can move it and place it where it needs to go.  Also take a few lunge line lessons with no stirrups and no reins.  you will probably find that your problem isn't just in the leg, but that your leg problem is just the symptom of a balance problem in your core.