Hi, I have a 12 yr old reg. QH-mare (never was bred),  who moved at the age of 4 with me from Germany to Texas. After 2 or 3 years there she started to be seemingly continous in heat. I thought this could have to do with not having any distinct seasons and winter. 3 yrs ago we moved to Northern Arizona. Asides from the health certificate check I had an ultrasound of the ovaries done, to rule out cysts or tumors. That was fine, so I hoped that having a real winter could fix the problem. This was not the case: at any time, whatever weather or season we have, as soon as she comes in contact (mostly) or sees (sometimes) any other horse, foal, gelding, mares, donkey, cow...she gets totally nuts. She prances, paces, bucks, rears, snorts and whinnies like a stud, squirts extremely, seems to be totally out of her head. Hours later she still blubbers to the new "lover-boy", no mind for her buddies. To handle her or ride her when she displayes this behavior is downright dangerous sometimes.

I got suggested to try "Mare Magic", to no avail. Also I heard  that she might have a light case of IR (not tested yet), which could mess with the hormones. So I switched from fee feeding bermuda plus 2 cups Equine Senior 2xdaily to free feeding bermuda plus 1 1/2 cup timothy pellets (which she wouldn't need, just for my peace of mind). She is actually getting a little fat. No change - whenever she meets a new pal or even the old pals/geldings from where I board her, it's like flicking a switch (and she does that all the time, when I'm not there, too)

 One of my vets (last check up in April) said that most mares would settle down when bred. hmmm...

She is seemingly healthy, UTD on shots and regularly wormed.

I never owned a mare like this before, and in Germany she was ok.

I have to admit, that I can't ride her and work her as I would like and previously did, because now here in N AZ where I live now,the only and closest place where I can board her, is a 70 mile roundtrip.

And yes, we have other riding issues and respect issues, too, which doesn't surprise me.

So, long story, maybe one of you forum participants has some ideas what I could or should do.

Thanks very much, Susie

Hi, thanks for your answer,

I know my mare since she was 5 min old and she was and is always kept outdoors and together with others. I love mares, too, in Germany she was together with her dam ( I showed her there in AQHA shows, too) until 6 wks before we moved. (the dam had a freak accident and died instantly), in Texas I had 3 other mares, and here in AZ she lives in an about 1/2 acre pen with geldings all around her, including contact with them. This is actually a problem, that she never is and was alone, bec. by now (partially due that I can't work her often) she is extremely barn and buddy sour.

At the boarding place are a 3 and 1 yr old gelding, that come and go. She is absolutly in "love" with the 3 yr old. If this horse goes somewhere (even if it's just to get tied to the trailer) she get's so nuts, I'm afraid she hurts herself. She pays no mind to her buddy (when she first met him, she jumped the fence to be with him) or to me. Yesterday we rode together, and before we left, the 3 yr old got moved around and she ran into the pipe corral panels, sqirting and generally making a racket. On the ride she tried to position herself for him to mount her.

Her temperament is usually pretty cool, doesn't scare that easily, is on the lazy side (which is my fault, rather tries to use her energy to get out of work instead to work with me), but then again, she can all of the sudden explode. Kinda Jekyll and Hyde like.

I think spaying at her age wouldn't completley solve the problem, because by now part of her behavior is ingrained in her brain. (just like late gelding a stud- still stud behavior)

Daily hormone injections are not an option, since I can't be there every day and it's not possible that the barn boss can do it.

My fear about breeding her is that it may only work while she is pregnant, and I just can't and don't want to re-breed her all the time. (plus she'll turn 13, horse market down...etc...)

I am fishing here for possible solutions, ideas and answers, the next vet is 1 1/2 hrs to 2 hrs away from where we and the horse lives. And I can't afford what vets like to do: test a horse from eartips to the tail.

I could live with my mare if she only would be wacko once a month, but this occures at any time/all the time.

Also I heard of a hormone implant and the sterilized glassmarble implant to the uterus. Both things might not work and last for only 3 month anyway.

So, thanks to all of you that might have some suggesstions !

Susie

I think at the very least it would be wise to have the vet out and draw some blood. Get a sample when she is calm and restrained. Then offer her the opportunity to go bonkers and draw a second sample. Have the vet look for differences in hormone levels between the two. That should either confirm or eliminate estrus as the source of the problem. If it turns out to be a "false heat", you can then focus on training for behavioral changes. ~FH

 Edited To Add: If you draw blood samples, have the vet look for elevated cortisol levels, too. That would be an indicator of pain.

I have a mare with a similar problem. She has been a perfect lady from the time I purchased her at age 3 until age 14 when I purchased a gelding. She has lived the whole time with her cousin (a mare). I have shown her extensively and ridden around a lot of geldings without her turning a hair and now she is driving me crazy.

She acts like a stallion to her female cousin and squeals, strikes, kicks and squirts at the gelding across the fence all day. If I ride the gelding  or put him in the barn where she can't see him she pitches a fit and calls for him nonstop.

She apparently has no ovarian cysts and her blood work is normal. I know she has terrible melanomas but I can't figure it out. Maybe she is in pain in some way.

I am very interested to hear if your find anything out about your mare's condition.

I love mares too. I wish she could tell me what is wrong.

Good luck I am in the same situation

Hi,

thanks for the suggestion. I will see what my vet says. A second blood drawing might be a little difficult, bec. when she goes bonkers, she is very hard to handle about sticking a needle in her vein.

If you have any more ideas, please let me know. A vet can't think of everything and maybe I can point something out, what he thinks might be a good idea.

Susie

Hi,

first I thought I let you all know that I'm kind of in a "devil's circle" about training and treating my mare.

I live in the Grand Canyon National Park, where you can't keep your horse. You can book the horsecamp for a week once a month, but that's it. The only and closest place where I can board is a 70 to 75 mile roundtrip (And believe me, I looked and searched). That's why I can't be there often enough, plus I would have to take my 3 yr old son with me. (I find that a little dangerous, especially since he doesn't want to listen). I hope that we'll move in a couple of years.

There is no possibility that anyone handled her roughly as you described. I made her lazy and I might have had a little bit a heavy hand when I broke her, but this behavior started under my care out on an 80 acre farm when she was running with 3 other mares. I believe that it started when they discovered that the neighbor (lots of acreage) had two ranch geldings coming up to the fence.

The barn owner  might not be a super horseman, but I am sure of him never doing anything bad to a horse. On the contrary, I think he is often way too "soft". The other 2 boarders know their way around horses and are never there anyway.

The comment about anxiety is interesting. I wouldn't know why, but I keep thinking about it.

I will call my vet and see what type of blood testing he would recommend.

Thanks, I'll keep you up to date, Susie

Susie--

With the blood draw: maybe you can draw the first sample when she's calm, then take away her buddy, let her get really worked up, and bring the buddy back. She calms down pretty quickly once he's back, doesn't she? As soon as she's standing still, quick draw the blood so that the cortisol or hormone levels haven't had a chance to wane. Does the vet freak her out like taking a buddy away does? If that's the case, you'd be better off doing the draw yourself. Have you ever drawn blood? Of course, I mean on purpose. :) If you feel comfortable doing that, I'm sure you could learn how to draw blood. I'll ask some friends for ideas on how to get that 2nd draw done.

Are you a ranger, hence living at the Park?

Hi, the vet doesn't freak her out. He is a really good old style vet. But my mare never liked shots, acts a lot better if I do them, but sticking her in the vein is a different thing (just feeling for it and she knows what's coming). I have never drawn blood on a horse, only humans.

My husband works in the Park, I'm home with my son (that's why I have to drag him with me all the time).

I see my girl later tdy (have to deliver some bermuda), let's see how her mood is tdy.

TTYL, Susie

I have just one more idea for you and it might seem a little strange or unrelated. There are a lot of new treatments for horse's stomachs on the market. In my opionion (I speak from 40 years of owning and competing with horses) that horses have far more stomach issues than we know of. I am sure you know as well as I that their stomach is poorly designed.

I have seen several horses and one donkey with behavioral issues improve with the use of one of these additives. I have personally used NeighLox which is an antacid and Smart Gut which also treats ulcers.

I think they get acid stomach just like people do from stress. She has moved. The hay is a little different. She is living farther from you than she ever has. And as we know horses don't think like we do there might be something that would seem just fine to anyone else but just isn't the way it should be to her.

Anyway for less than 100 bucks you can try having them put one of these in her feed twice a day and see if helps. If she doesn't get grain I would try the Neighlox as it is a highly palatable pellet for all of the picky eaters I have tried it on. I wouldn't bother with a pure probiotic supplement at first because if she is this upset she probably could do with an antacid anyway then you could try it later. A wide variety of these supplements are available in catalogs and it could come to your doorstep. At the very least these supplements will not harm her to try them.

Good Luck

Hi horseservant,

Yes this is an idea, but I used to own a young thouroughbred mare, that moved with us from TX to AZ. All the circumstances combined ( move, climate cx, starting training, different feed...) caused her to develop an ulcer. Her behavior, symptoms were totally different. She was fine in this regard with first treatment with Ulcer Guard, then NeighLox, in the beginning some Alfalfa for the Calcium and then free choice bermuda hay. I ended up bringing her back to TX, bec. this mare just didn't prosper right overall in this elevation here. Now she's happy.

I keep thinking of the comment of 48northfarm about anxiety, but there is only a handful incidents I can find, which happened years before she started with this "heat behavior". I can't quite see a connection there.

On Wednesday she was a little weird, like she would miss the 3 yr gelding. I had to deliver hay and pick up firewood, so I let her out of her 1 acre pen (the whole property is 40 acres, front gate far away from horses). She went along the other horses pens to eat their spilled hay, then she came up to the house, where I was loading the firewood. She didn't really seem to look for my company, just strolling around. Then the water delivery truck came, and she started whinnieing. After several minutes, I coaxed her to the barn to get her feed, bring her back to her paddock, because she kept staring towards the front gate (not visible from there) and whinnied, like she would be waiting for something and getting ready to run off. (She did something like that years before, after she arrived in TX. She was a couple of weeks by herself, no other horses anywhere. Then I had to board her for 10 days at a horse breeder and dealer. She jumped the fence there, ran away from the other horses towards her new home).

Back in her paddock she was not interested in her feed and appeared kinda depressed (in the human sense), didn't even give a glance to her buddy in the neighbor pen. I checked her for colic signs, fever etc. , but she seemed physically ok.             What do you make of that?!

Maybe I'm reading too much into this all, a horse is a horse is a horse is a horse...

But the heat behavior problem is real for sure, as I said before, I'm going to the vet for blood testing, just need to find the right day (the vet is two hrs away from here).

Thanks