So i aquired my first young horse and western horse about 3 weeks ago. He is a 3 year old App/QH is totally laid back, almost to laid back. he's so slow, lazy and is totally non-spooky. He's broke to ride also

I rode him for the first time today in the round pen. at a walk with a once around trot. but heres my problem, he is so lazy i can't get him to move, at one point it was a fight. kicking, leg pressure, vebal cues, clicking... nothing could get him to budge.

One lady at the barn suggested blunt spurs, idk if i wanna use spurs on a young baby.

I've ground driven him (long lined), he has excelent Whoa and flexation.

Any ideas from those who have trained a young LAZY horse?

Assuming you have ruled all health/equipment issues out, how is he when you lunge him? When I first started working with Lily she did not want to go, under saddle or lunging. We worked on the ground first, and it really did transfer to under saddle. It took her earning my respect - mostly sensitizing her responses, even those non-riding related, such as giving to pressure when leading and willingly holding her feet up. I made sure to ask nicely first, then tell, then demand. Play around and see what he responds to - Lily was stubborn enough not to respond to the crack of the whip at first, so rather than getting frustrated and asking over and over, I popped the saddle with the whip - it gave a nice sound that told her I meant business, but wouldn't hurt her. I only had to do it once or twice ever before she got the idea. That works a lot better than "nagging" with your aids and asking over and over until they respond. Make sure to give him lots of praise and stay out of his mouth when he does start going. 

yes he is super lazy on th ground in the round pen too. he'll trot after you ask a few times but you really have to get after him to pick it up into a canter.

I've finally found which size tree he needs (full QH bars) and now have to find one to use. but its not the tack i had the lady at the barn today check before i got on him

 This is what my instructor would say (I'm no expert myself). She trains a lot of young horses every year. She says all young horses seem "lazy" at first, but it's because they really don't understand the aids yet. You have to keep things very simple for them, and yes you may well have to kick hard sometimes. She would certainly not use spurs. She always starts the training by lungeing and then progresses to riding once the horse understands the verbal commands on the lunge line and is obeying well. So at that point you have the voice commands as an additional aid when you're on their back. She will also use a second person on the ground to help, if the rider really can't get anywhere at all. The ground person may lead the horse at first. 

She also says that a young horse that's been lazy can often later change into a much more lively horse (over a year or so, say) once they understand what to do. This is a caution to her students not to get overconfident with a young horse that never thought to spook before - it might very well start spooking later. They're young, you just can't tell yet.

Hope that helps.

 

 

 

Is starting young horses your expertise?  Can you imagine what your horse was thinking when you were wildly trying to get him to go?   

Still waters run deep.  Horses that seem lazy have inward personalities.  They really are not lazy, but unmotivated. If your horse is not responding to the same ques while being driven, he probably will not respond to those ques when you are on his back. 

He is probably very quiet (seemingly) so you have progressed a little faster than you should have.  You have left out steps that are important to his training. It is best to simulate the same aides  on the ground while driving and playing with your horse.

Check out some of the material available from some of the top colt trainers and natural horsemen.  They have been doing this for years and they have some very workable systems.

Do you like to be called names?  Don't refer to your horse as lazy.  He sounds like a "what's in it for me" type. You need to convince him that your request to go faster is not going to last forever.  If you have to escalate to harder bits, spurs, hitting and unnecessary anger / fighting you will only make it worse. The best video I have ever seen on this issue is Parelli's "My Horse Won't Go"  I don't think he offers it anymore so you'll probably have to get a copy off of ebay. Also, you may consider your personality is too impatient or too high energy to work with a horse like this. You may have to change your whole concept of impulsion. Perhaps you have been used to impulsive.  Neither are good.  Best wishes.

LISTEN, i was not asking for your critique on me. nor was i calling my horse a name. Nor was i wildly trying to get my horse to move, i have been riding horses for about 8 years and am not a beginner

I am looking for hints on how to teach my horse to move out. yes he is young but he has been riden and broke to ride, i did not say i was using spurs on him and i am not moving to fast nor am i impatiant trying to speed up training of my horse.

I'm looking for help from those who have worked with young lazy horses. and how they got them motivated to work. my horse is lazy on the ground and undersaddle. he listens very well to verbal cues, its just motivating him to MOVE.

I had the same problem with my 4 yr. old western pleasure horse. We could not get her to move. I would kick, kick, kick tap with a crop and she would take 1 step and stop. I sent her out to a trainer who finally took her out of the ring and down the trails. She loved it. For the next year I did all my training with her on the trail. She learned walk, trot, side passes, giving, all out there. It might be worth a try.

I will be upfront and tell you I'm very new to riding young horses as I have just recently just started my 3 year old MFT who is very not motivated to move fast..which to be quite honest with you is fine by me.  But I do watch a lot of Clinton Anderson so my suggestion would be:  squeeze (do not kick), cluck or kiss, then spank lightly at first, the increase the pressure of spanking....  same way in the round penn point in the direction you want to your horse to go, cluck, spank the ground, if you don't get the gait that you're wanting spank the ground again again not the speed spank him...

 Be very black and white, no shades of gray...

Again I'm very new to all of this myself but I thought I'd just put my 2 cents in :)

 

Hi! Yes we have been there ! Your young horse feels everything you are doing of course but is not responding. You don't want to turn it into a fight and you don't want to make him dull by pounding at him ! Try this: ask him to move forward with gentle leg pressure,. If he does not respond quickly increase the pressure and if he still does not move give him a cluck cue or kiss, whatever sound you like.Now if he is not moving you are going to start spanking your reins back and forth, left to right over YOUR shoulders. The important thing is the motion, not hitting. Increase the speed and energy untill he moves . Move thru these phases quickly, never repeat them even once - go right to the next step after a few seconds.As soon as he responds, leave him alone.If he stops again, start over at phase 1 . If you do this consistently he will learn to understand & respect your cues. Hope this helps - don't get frustrated,just work on communication !

thanks everyone for your comments tonight. i didnt see him riden before i picked him up. it was our equine dentists horse and she was leaving for more classes in texas so it was picking him up and grab him while he's free or he goes to someone else. i havnt even talked to her to see what bit she was using so i put him in a D-ring snaffle.

i'll try your comments this week when i spend all weekend out there house sitting for the BO.

You are getting some good advice, go back & work on ground. Teach voice commands. but try this. its older than i am. When he walks, swing your legs gently with his rhythm left, right, forward, back. He will begin to feel you & move with you. Slowly begin to move slightly faster & he should also. What you want to do is create the energy you want to see in him. Once he walks out well, begin to post the rhythm you want to see using leg aids, this helps him understand the aids & what you want. He should pick up the trot to match. We used this on babies we started to help them move & they all learned w/o  too much problem. But definitely talk to his previous owner & do what she says.  Happy is the person on the back or a horse!

The method I use for training young or dead sided horses that need retraining to listen to a quite leg aid and be more responsive is simple to use and works great.  Starting at a halt, ask your horse to go forward by using a light leg aid - closing your calf on his side with a little squeeze.  Your leg should be positioned at the girth.  If he does not immediately respond by going forward, give him a kick with both legs.  The strength of your kick will depend on how sensitive your horse is.  Be ready to go with him if he jumps forward, even if he trots off that's fine.  If he does trot off, allow him to trot a little and ask him to walk again.  If he still ignores your kick, you may need to carry a dressage whip and give him a tap right behind your leg to enfore the aid.  After a transition when you had to kick or use the whip to get him to go foward make sure to repeat the whole process again after a few steps, starting with your light leg aid.  With this repition, he will learn that if he doesn't respect your light leg aid you will follow up with a stronger one immediately.  Once he is responding well from the halt to walk, you can progress to walk to trot and then trot to canter.  I would not use a leg aid with increasing strength, you want to make it very clear that he needs to listen to your leg right when you ask.  Also, check that when you're riding him that you are not pushing and pushing with every stride just to keep him going.  He needs to keep up the pace on his own and if you are constantly pushing (and it's an easy habit to get into with a horse like that!) all you are doing is deadening him to your aids and teaching him to tune you out.  If you are consistent with this, you will soon have a more responsive horse - maybe even in one session!

Take a quick appraisal at your own skills - are your legs quiet enough for spurs? I have no qualms riding young horses in spurs - IF - and that's the big IF - your leg is quiet. I'd rather ask once and then tell them - than nag. I've started quite a few young horses and if he's quiet - get him out of the round pen. Go somewhere - will he stop when asked? Does he flex to either side? If yes to these, get him on the trail, or even in an arena if you're not comfortable on the trail yet. Ask him to move forward. If he doesn't respond to a squeeze and a cluck, use your heel and bump. Turn his head to the side and ask again - get his feet to move. If that still doesn't work, pop his butt with the bridle rein. Praise him when he does what you're asking. There is a difference in just starting one - when he doesn't KNOW what you want - and one that's just wanting to be lazy.