Yep, sh, the applesauce (or molasses) has worked here as well on some other horses.  Different methods are fine for different horses.  :-)

I'll add another comment to the applesauce "trick": it's just like getting a bad apple.  You give your horse the applesauce for a week or whatever, then, all of sudden--yuck, that was a bad apple.  But for the next week you give him applesauce again.  If you give your horse apples at all, he's eventually going to get one that just doesn't taste that good; this is just like the wormer, IMO.  But, in the horse world (especially when referring to training) there are always differing opinions; you just kind of have to decide for yourself.

The applesauce may not work if your horse doesn't care for it.  In that case, I dip the tip of a syringe in water, then in sugar, and get the horse used to that a little.

When I have a difficult horse, I'll start by waving the syringe by his face.  Make sure you don't hit him at all, but don't slowly wave it back and forth.  Put some effort into it.  Very likely, he will raise his head and even run backwards.  If he runs forwards, pull his head around and keep him in a tight circle (I recommend a rope halter and 14' lead, although if you're new to long leads a shorter lead will be better as far as keeping it organized).  If he runs backwards, follow him, continuing to wave the tube.  Once he stops moving his feet and lowers his head to its natural position, take the tube away and rub his neck.  Over time, it won't bother him.  You can then proceed to rubbing the tube all over his mouth, on both sides, stopping when he shows the same signs as stated above.

Lastly, you can work on inserting it in his mouth and taking it out, in and out, until he, again, relaxes and keeps his feet perfectly still.  You can fill a plastic syringe with some lukewarm water and gently squirt it in his mouth to get him used to the sensation.

I think that the biggest thing, however, is not to act like he's going to throw a fit.  When you sneak around him, and you have that mindset of, "I just know he's going to throw a huge fit about this," he will.  But if you act like he's an old kid's pony who's been doing this all his life and could care less what you put in his mouth, he'll generally be a whole lot better.  And don't shove the dewormer in his mouth and push the plunger faster than lightning.  Gently put it in his mouth, and push the plunger at medium speed--not too quick, not too slow.

Also, watch your mouth for your own safety. :)  Keep your head away from his, because trust me, it is not fun to get your mouth/nose bopped by a horse lifting his head up too quickly.  You can knock your teeth out doing it, too.

I would suggest doing all sorts of stuff around his head: wave your hand around him, coil your lead rope and lay it all over his ears, etc., using the same approach-and-retreat methods of applying pressure until the horse keeps his feet perfectly still and shows a sign of relaxation, then remove the pressure.  The horse learns from the release of pressure, not from the applying of pressure.  If needed, get a trainer to help you (always better to be safe than to be sorry, especially around horses!)

My Gracie:

 With my mare, I was always careful to stick the tube as far back into the side of her mouth as possible. That way there's less of it on the tongue, and it's placed to go down faster! And in addition to this, you could consider having a special treat, say a lump of sugar or piece of carrot, that he only gets after he has taken the dewormer. There should be enough of it so he can actually taste something good after the yucky paste.

Regarding the barn sourness, you mentioned riding in fields--the same fields where he's pastured? Is it possible for you to fence off a smaller riding arena?

Excellent points! I always have the paste dewormer ready to go. The dosage ring preset, cap off and tube holstered in my back pocket. With a firm grip on the halter chin strap I bring the tube up under the horse's jaw (blind spot) and quickly go into the mouth through the bars, angled to the back of the throat and get the entire paste cylinder as far in as it will go while simultaneously discharging the plunger.

oh thank you so much for your advice!  it sounds like a plan that may work on him. i do put him in stall for de-wormer and halter him but never tie him up.. one time it toke me 2 hours to worm him,needless to say i was frustated. i had to put a lip chain on him,he tosses his head  up so high i couldn,t reach his mouth. i like the applesauce idea after i deworm him..as treat. i am off this weekend and gonna work on this advice you gave me.. i make copies on my printer what everybody is helping me with,and i read it over and over..ha..i even sent  copies to a few freinds that have horses.. i was out brushing jackson lastnight and just kept rubbing my hand over his face gentle,then over his lips,he tossed his head up,but after awhile he relaxed and let me do it without fussing. i use to think it was something to do with his teeth,so had his teeth floated.last year. i am not gonna give up on this horse,he has a few small issues but with everyones advice that i have gotten from this forum has been great! and i am gonna start really working with him. i need to learn how to get his respect..he thinks he is the boss..i wish i could figure out to put phots on this forum.thanks so much.bjohnson

thanks gracie,will follow the advice..yes i have ten acres of feild fenced in. we just built a new barn this past year. and my next project is to put in round pen or small riding arena. i think i have also made the mistake of saddling him at that gate that he loves to run me to..when i bought this horse i rode him at the previous owners and he wanted to run me back to there barn area.so maybe i should have none then there was a problem!  i am gonna work on on making progress with jackson.. if all else fails i will send him off to a trainer. and start back to the beginning. thanks bjohnson

you definetly hit that write on,i think that has been the biggest problem with him,he takes charge and makes the decisions. when he fights me to go back to the gate,i easliy give into him. when i try to make him go in another directions he throws his head really bad..it just drives me nutts,i am light on the bit..i do realize its been a HUDGE mistake on my part..i know better then that!!   you asked about a typical session,i lunge him in circles,for 15-20 mintues. when i mount i make him take a few steps back and have him walk off. now when i am out in feilds messing around i have down stuff with bags,also laid blue-tarps down,put stones in milk jugs and kicked them around. i also have a three year paint filly, i do differnt stuff. my horses just kinda stand there and look at me. ha.they will walkacross tarps,when working around the farm with power-tools etc,there are the noseist horses  doesn,t bother them abit.. i have read one of john lyons books.  some how over the years i have lost my confidense,i got hurt really bad every since then,its not been the same. i was the lady hitting the trails. thanks bjohnson

you asked what is on that other side of the gate. its just where i saddle him..

bjohnson0837:

if all else fails i will send him off to a trainer. and start back to the beginning. 

 hi, barb!  When my horse starts to act sour (I ride in a field, too) I try to counteract it by keeping his mind busy with lots of transitions, circles, ground poles, serpentines, etc. and change it up so that he has no idea what I am going to ask for next.  I also take him twice a week on walk/trot hacks around my neighborhood to refresh him.

 I hope this helps. Good Luck

bjohnson0837:

i wish i could figure out to put phots on this forum.thanks so much.bjohnson

thanks cafi, last summer i did use cones and treid differnet things with him. he did good. but once he stops,he really wants to go back to that gate. i placed the cones out of sight from the barn and gate. i really have to start working on all the great advice i have gotten. i had good success worming jackson today.. yeah..

everyones advice is valuable to me and helps me to think about what i am doing with my horse.

as for a bit i am overwhelmed with all choices of bits. jackson has soft mouth, any ideas?

A snaffle of some kind: a loose ring, a full-cheek, an egg-butt, all are good choices. Those that are double-jointed are my preference. I started Athene on a KK Ultra loose-ring snaffle, but she seems to prefer a Mullen mouth snaffle. With the double-jointed snaffle she had a very busy mouth--to the detriment of paying attention to anything else--and as soon as I tried a Mullen mouth snaffle she instantly quieted her mouth.

I agree with 48.  With all my horses, no matter what their background, I start with a loose ring snaffle.  If they're leaning on me and being heavy and difficult even after several days of basic training in a snaffle, I'll try a twisted wire for a few days just to sharpen their response and get them listening, then I go back to the loose ring.  I only use a gentle, snaffle-like curb when the horse is advanced enough for collection work.  The rule is to always remember that your horse will only be as light as the bit you put in his mouth: so if you put the simplest bit in his mouth, he'll be really light on that bit, but if you put a big, severe bit in his mouth, he may be light on that bit but he won't be nearly as light in a snaffle.

thanks 48northfarm, i just didn,t want to get something harsh.  i am light in his mouth.